Where Did All The earths Water Come from?

From rocks to H2O

from JoeUser Forums
Its estimated that approximately 2/3's of the earths surface is covered by water. Roughly 326 million cubic meters of water in the earths oceans alone; staggering!

This does not include the water locked in the polar ice caps, nor in the bodies of organic life. Ground water, lacustrian environments, and the atmosphere all contain large amounts of water as well.

The question is: Where did all the earths water come from?

This question was first put to me by Rolfe Erickson, Professor of Geology during a lecture discussion many years ago.

Dr. Erickson, or as we know him, Rolfe, an Igneous Petrologist posed this question to an entire senior class. At the time, it was a very challenging question for us, and I laugh now thinking back at some of our answers. However, many of us “knowledgeable” students sat there with wrinkled foreheads, and blank looks on our faces.

After about 10 or 15 minutes of wild guesses and blank stares, Rolfe came out with:

“It’s really quite simple. All the water now present on the earth derived from the earths rocks themselves.”

After a few minutes, some of those blank stares began to spark with serendipitous thoughts of understanding; we were after all studying Igneous Petrology.

The igneous process.

Take for example, that when a volcano erupts, a large portion of what issues forth comes as volatile emissions, or gases. A very large component of the volatile erupting from a volcano is what? Yep, you guessed it - water vapor.

Do you agree? Disagree? Don’t care? Interesting? Insightful?
11,454 views 33 replies
Reply #1 from JoeUser Forums Top
I am not as knowledgeable as Dr. Rolfe, but a competing theory is that the water came from Comets.  Now where the water in comets came from - from the big bang (when all elements were essentially created, along with some compounds.).
Reply #2 from JoeUser Forums Top
Water is made up of Hydrogen and Oxygen, so there's lots of hydrogen in the universe and some oxygen. Because we got a good mix of elements on the Earth, and the temperature and pressure is right, a lot of that water is liquid, and some gas, and some solid.
Gravity keeps it around, just like it keep everything else around on Earth.

You can also create water by mixing oxygen and hydrogen at the right pressure and temperature, with electricity, alot of this kind of science is being explored to reverse the process, making electricity from the hydrogen and oxygen in hydrogen fuel cell powered automobiles.

When you combine hydrogen and oxygen under pressure you can make electricty via the reverse electrolosis process and the end result is both electricty and water.

If nuclear fusion is ever perfected, hopefully sooner, rather then later, and the fusing of the light atomic molecules that make up water, as ooposed to splitting of very dense radio active molecules, nuclear fission, a lot of energy, more energy, is released during fusion, then fission. So in a cup of water an entire city could be electrically powered for a long time, and the entire needs of the planet could be powered for a very long time.

Groupy 2 - Organize multiple applications into grouped tabs on your Windows desktop
Reply #3 from JoeUser Forums Top
I am not as knowledgeable as Dr. Rolfe, but a competing theory is that the water came from Comets. Now where the water in comets came from - from the big bang (when all elements were essentially created, along with some compounds.).


Good going Doc! This was one of the answers my class had for Rolfe, whom by the way I respect as a scholar, but is hardly the "all knowing" as he often warned us. Science is as infallable as the humans that write it

For my lack of good understanding of cosic things, I did a Google search to reaquaint myself with this arguement. I hope you find it as enlightening as I have

Link
Reply #4 from JoeUser Forums Top
Water is made up of Hydrogen and Oxygen, so there's lots of hydrogen in the universe and some oxygen. Because we got a good mix of elements on the Earth, and the temperature and pressure is right, a lot of that water is liquid, and some gas, and some solid.


Nice response DG, but the question remains, what emplaced these componants (H and O2) on the earth, and what forced were present to combine them into the compound we know as water?
Reply #5 from JoeUser Forums Top
Now I know I am not as knowledgeable as your Prof!  I did understand the "of" and "earth" terms however.
Reply #6 from JoeUser Forums Top
Now I know I am not as knowledgeable as your Prof!


Everybody specializes in their own field Doc, I know your pleanty smart about things you feel are important.

You would really love Rolfe though. He is one of the most beautiful people I've ever met, as were many of my profs at SSU.

Ironically, I studied under Dr. Matthew James, a Paleontologist out of UC Berlely. Believe it or not, this guy is one of the, if not the leading publisher on the Galapagos Islands. This man, another awesome dude taught creationism along side with evolution. Matt taught me that many scientists do believe in God, without actually saying so.

Now you see how I feel talking about politics though...I know some stuff, but really I just seem to flounder about when things get tight.

You did a great job here Doc, and thanks so much for your input
Reply #7 from JoeUser Forums Top
Bleh...I'm getting kind of sick of chemistry. You can get water by burning hydrocarbons...in other words alcohols, ketones, aldehydes...yadda yadda yadda.

CH4(methane) + O2(oxygen gas) -----with a bit of heat---> CO2 + H2O...so, that's a different way...then you have your hydrogen and oxygen coming together...and your decomposition reactions...and your neutralization reactions to produce a salt and water...bunch of ways to make it.

~Zoo
Reply #8 from JoeUser Forums Top
and what forced were present to combine them into the compound we know as water?


Oh, you posed this question?...Well, it's a simple matter of valence electrons and the desire to form an octet. One oxygen atom has 6 valence electrons and hydrogen has one. They come together to form a covalent bond so you have 2H that have 2 electrons total and one oxygen with 6 electrons. Stick'em together and you have your octet configuration which is what all atoms and compounds strive for...because it's stable. Nature "likes" the lowest energy and highest stability.

Wow...I am such a freakin' nerd...

~Zoo
Reply #9 from JoeUser Forums Top
Heya Zoo, I minored in Chem and I know it's a bit tedious, so I can see how it can make some students weary.

Its a very interesting concept you have running here:

Stick'em together and you have your octet configuration which is what all atoms and compounds strive for...because it's stable.


Can you show me a reaction that can make this happen, because I've never seen one.

Nerdy is is sssoooo cool sometimes.

I really thank you guys for participating in this one. Because as a painter, I never really have very many conversations along these lines, and for me...well its refreshing
Reply #10 from JoeUser Forums Top
Can you show me a reaction that can make this happen, because I've never seen one.


Never?...This occurs in forming most compounds. That's why things fit the way they do...you remember Lewis structures or electron dot diagrams? Those illustrate it.

Take methane for example: CH4 One carbon, 4 hydrogens. Carbon (which is so special it gets its own division of chemistry, Organic) So, anywho...you have your C atom with 4 electrons...therefore, it needs 4 more to complete its octet configuration. So, say it comes into contact with some H atoms, each having one valence electron...4 of them are like, dude, let's hook up with C and so they do. I think there's a bit more to it, but I don't care for looking it up right now...might be some pressure or temperature variables, but that's the basic idea. H only has 2 orbitals...so when those are filled it counts as its octet configuration. The octet basically happens when forming compounds...H2O, CH4, CO2...etc, etc. All your noble gases have filled outer shells...and half of them are inert, which means they're not able to form compounds...like helium, argon, and neon.

Anyway, with the CH4 example...I'll try and "draw" a diagram...hope it turns out alright. (disregard the periods...they're just place holders, damn thing justified my structure and it looked weird...so I had to put those in. Point is, all the H's are connected to the C, not eachother)
.....H
.....|
H-C-H
.....|
.....H

The reaction would be: C + 2H2 ----> CH4 I think, anyway...works out, anyway.
Alright...each line represents a shared pair of electrons...so Carbon has 4 on it already and shares them with all the H's. The H's have one each and share them with C which completes the octet(remember H only needs 2 electrons).

I really hope that helps...

~Zoo
Reply #11 from JoeUser Forums Top
"Nice response DG, but the question remains, what emplaced these componants (H and O2) on the earth, and what forced were present to combine them into the compound we know as water?"

It all depends on your perspective and what you tend to believe in more.

If it's the science view, it's luck of the draw in the universe, that gave us a large concentration of hydrogen and oxygen, which was able to create water eventually. Us as opposed to Mars for example, if Mars had oceans they would be frozen solid but still there, but there is very little water there, another reason that a lot of the water on Earth is still here is that there is an atmosphere that keeps the temperature of the Earth relatively stable and prevents the water from evaporating and exciting the atoms enough to leave the planet. If you need to know the exact choronological order in which things happen in the history of the galaxy well science is still working on that. Your guess is as good as mine.

If it's the religious viewpoint you're after, the bible tells about how God created the Earth in a few days, I imagine that he put water here for us to drink and for fish to swim in and for Jesus to walk on and turn into wine.

One thing is certain about water. All life on the planet needs to have water in order to survive. Water in liquid form, is necessary for our bodies and the bodies of both plant and animal life as well as bacteria to mobilize nutrients for the cells. Without liquid water carbon based cellular life forms don't develop. At least that's what I remember from Chemistry-Biology-Physical Science.

If you're curious about how and why hydrogen and oxygen form water, it's because atoms at their basic elemental level like to join up and form bonds with other atoms into molecules, if there is another type of atom available for example if two hydrogen atoms are floating around and two oxygen atoms are floating around they'll split and from onto each other as H2O. Elements on the periodic table on the left side like to react with the elements on the right side of the table and vice versa. Oxygen is very reactive and hydrogen is the most reactive element in existence. If you are really interested in how this stuff works take a basic chemistry class at a tech school near ya, won't cost nearly as much as you'll gain from learning about how chemistry works.
Reply #12 from JoeUser Forums Top
The reaction would be: C + 2H2 ----> CH4 I think, anyway...works out, anyway.


Please do not think I'm insulting you here Zoo, but I cant help but feeling insulted.

Are you meaning to tell me, from this incomplete reation, that all the water of the earth, let alone even a portion of that water results from a reation that does not contain the product H2O?
Reply #13 from JoeUser Forums Top
If you're curious about how and why hydrogen and oxygen form water, it's because atoms at their basic elemental level like to join up and form bonds with other atoms into molecules, if there is another type of atom available for example if two hydrogen atoms are floating around and two oxygen atoms are floating around they'll split and from onto each other as H2O.


Are you meaning to tell me, that somehow free oxegen and hydogen were just somehow floating on the surface of a planet that at the time contained NO atmosphere, and created water?

Are you somehow implying that I do not know how water is formed to the extent that we know?

Elements on the periodic table on the left side like to react with the elements on the right side of the table and vice versa. Oxygen is very reactive and hydrogen is the most reactive element in existence.

If you are really interested in how this stuff works take a basic chemistry class at a tech school near ya, won't cost nearly as much as you'll gain from learning about how chemistry works.


Thank you for your insults.

You have not offered anything near anything comnclusive. Even the Doc, as a lamen outclassed you here. Yet you have the audacity to say the things you do, with not so much as a shred of understanding.

Go back to your Google searches.

Without an apology, you are unwelcome on this thread.

If it's the religious viewpoint you're after, the bible tells about how God created the Earth in a few days, I imagine that he put water here for us to drink and for fish to swim in and for Jesus to walk on and turn into wine.


You show your ignorance to its utmost in this statement. You have quite the gall.
Reply #14 from JoeUser Forums Top
Zoo, please do not be intimidated by any part of what you have seen. I am truly interested in your hypothesis, and very willing to consider anything you put forth.

Whay you postulate is not completely unheard of.

I remember a while back reading of a plan to produce an atmosphere, not unlike that of the earth, on mars, not so unlike what you have mentioned.

The difference as I see it, is that we are talkling about water appearing on a primordial earth vs. creating an atmosphere on an existing planet. I am exploring with you
Reply #15 from JoeUser Forums Top
Are you meaning to tell me, from this incomplete reation, that all the water of the earth, let alone even a portion of that water results from a reation that does not contain the product H2O?


Oh, no...sorry, I was using that reaction for the octet configuration example. I was just explaining that whole principle.

~Zoo
Reply #16 from JoeUser Forums Top
The reaction for water would be:

O2 + 2H2 ----> 2H2O

Now, if you want to neutralize something...you'll get a salt and water. (Metathesis..aka double replacement)

2NaOH(a base) + H2SO4(an acid) ----> Na2SO4 + 2H2O

Burning a hydrocarbon does it too. (A combustion reaction)

CH4 + 2O2 ---heat---> CO2 + 2H2O

You can also have a bunch of dehydration reactions: alcohols to ethers, alcohols to alkenes, carboxylic acids to acid anhydrides. (there are probably a bunch more...and these are a pain to write out, but they do have H2O as a product. Google "dehydration reactions" and you should get a good list of them.)

I'm sure there are more reactions that have H2O as a product...but these are enough for now. It's just to prove that there are several reactions which can produce water.

Those are 4 of the ones I can think of off the top of my head.

That's what chemistry has instilled in me in the ways of water products.

~Zoo
Reply #17 from JoeUser Forums Top
Good, God...with my arguments for evolution and my knowledge of chemistry, no one will doubt that I'm a science major.

~Zoo
Reply #18 from JoeUser Forums Top
Good, God...with my arguments for evolution and my knowledge of chemistry, no one will doubt that I'm a science major.


I love ya man.

Zoo, please do not be discouraged. This is what real science is. Its not personal, and I am hearing you my friend...believe me.

No matter where you stand in your education, its only a representation of your thoughts. Your education will simply help you explain things differently.

Be thankful your not an engineer inside the box where everything is black and white.

When you fail in science, you turn to politics.

The physical world exists whether humans are here or not. Politics are for the confused. A way to trade off certain failures of understanding the universe for something that is completely man made, intangible, radical, and mostly unpredictable...politics and economics.

Relish in your purity of heart.

Never lose that or simply become another cog in the machine.

End rant. Time for another martini.

Feel free to correct my spelling or grammer.
Reply #19 from JoeUser Forums Top
Zoo, please do not be discouraged.


Discouraged?...Bwahaha! Hardly...I love science. It's a hell of a lot better than calculus at any rate. I understand everything I've been taught perfectly...the only reason it's such a pain in the ass is how they do these damn exams....you have to pick the questions apart and find the true meaning of the question. It's like a Where's Waldo in knowledge...if they would ask a straight question for once, my experience would be much more pleasurable....but still...I'd be lost if these same tactics were used in economics, politics, and calculus. I hate calculus if you haven't figured that out by now...which I have to take next semester....blah...oh well, at least I took it in high school, so I know what's coming up.

Anywho...did those reactions help at all?

Oh...and:
Feel free to correct my spelling or grammer.


"Grammar" has an 'a'. heh heh heh

~Zoo
Reply #20 from JoeUser Forums Top

It's a hell of a lot better than calculus at any rate

Bite your tongue!  Calculus is king!

Reply #21 from JoeUser Forums Top
Most likely the compounds for water were broken down from other gases that were volatilized out of the molten earth after it formed. The comet idea is somewhat applicable because before the earth formed it was a collection of gas and other materials that accreted to become the earth, which, like a comet, are a variety of chunks in space. As for a mechanism, intense heat, radioactivity and photoionization could've played key roles.

Mars would be too small to hold much of an atmosphere thus water wouldn't be able to stay in liquid form there very well, it also is not a very active planet which is another problem for atmosphere maintenance, I can't say at all because I don't know for sure. Venus is large enough but didn't get the right chemical composition and is so closer to the sun so evaporation of other materials interfered with the process. But I was interested to hear that some scientists believe the surface might be covered in iron pyrite (fools gold) FeS2 which would be from lots and lots of sulphur in the atmosphere.

Perhaps that explanation was too basic and you were more interested in the real physical process. In that case, most likely Zoo's methane reaction would be principle, and free oxygen could be provided by chemical reaction of silicates and other rocks in the ancient earth. Just about every rock, molten or otherwise contains lots of oxygen that could be given up. I'm not too confident in my ability to remember the supposed content of the early atmosphere.

Interesting question. I hope I haven't insulted anyone's intelligence.

Reply #22 from JoeUser Forums Top
Bite your tongue! Calculus is king!


I only bite my toungue when I'm doing calc...to keep my head from exploding.

~Zoo
Reply #23 from JoeUser Forums Top
Bite your tongue! Calculus is king!I only bite my toungue when I'm doing calc...to keep my head from exploding.


Actually Calculus is "Queen"; the queen of science.

So look at it as a way to express your science universally Zoo.

Embrace it as a language and it will be a lot more fun for you
Reply #24 from JoeUser Forums Top
Embrace it as a language and it will be a lot more fun for you


Nope, still a pain in the ass.

~Zoo
Reply #25 from JoeUser Forums Top
Nope, still a pain in the ass.


Yeah, I know. It always was fro me as well. It will all be over soon though.