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greywar
greywar
Join Date 05/2003
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Not so thinly disguised anti-semites

Seems our Zionist Overlords missed this one

April 23, 2004 1:41:32 PM from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums

This cartoon was published in the Rutger University Entertainment newspaper. They have defended it saying that it was supposed to be funny. What if this cartoon was “knock a nigger into chains for buck!” Or “Rape a chink woman from Nanking for a buck!” Would the left winger intelligentsia laugh that off? I think not. Rutgers has been a hotbed for barely closeted anti-semitism for a long time. At least now it is coming out into the light where people can actually see them for the pathetic pseudo aesthetes they really are.

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greywar
Shulamite
Join Date 01/2004
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Reply #1 April 23, 2004 2:42:27 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
"It's intellectual freedom." "It's a hate crime." "Freedom of the Press."
There's the argument. Do I have a right in the US to not have my feelings hurt? That's one side. Do I have a right to be protected from literature that suggests my demise? There's the other side. Another question: Is Christianity offered the same protections as other religions in the US? There's the claim that the only group its safe to make fun of is the white christian male. Are all other groups off limits? Lots of questions this sparks.

I'd say this is definetly beyond "making fun" and am sensitive to that. However I understand the freedom the press, though sometimes extremely distasteful, needs to have. If it advocates killing someone, then it can clearly be charged with inciting violence. See? How do we get past emotional reaction to deal with this logically?

I read the thread below the cartoon on the site. It seems a Jew published it. But he also said in a radio interview (purportedly), "we should 'get over' the Holocaust." A good article: http://www.townhall.com/columnists/davidhorowitz/printdh20030408.shtml

As a Christian, I'm called to pray for the Jews and bless them. I'm personally outraged by this. If I were some sort of queen bee, I'd fine them severely ... give them lots of community service in Jewish communities with those people whose family members survived the holocaust. maybe more. Governmentally? I think its a tough decision. I wouldn't send my children there though. I think I might pull public funds from the university if it advocates genocide. No need for the public to support that.
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greywar
greywar
Join Date 05/2003
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Reply #2 April 23, 2004 3:57:19 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
Shula - I would never argue that these folks don't have the right to publish any damn thing they want in their paper. What I do argue is that they should be rightly exposed as complete hypocrites. These are the same folks who would skewer anyone else for using anything remotely rascist. While I agree that rascists should be skewered, I simply would roll them in with the lot.
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greywar
greywar
Join Date 05/2003
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Reply #3 April 23, 2004 4:02:43 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
I guess the message to me is that if i stop using the F-word so often in my longer hand-crafted articles they may actually end up on the front page?
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greywar
shadesofgrey
Join Date 02/2004
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Reply #4 April 23, 2004 5:31:33 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
Greywar--

Hey I thought you said no more "links" articles--just kidding

The cartoon is disgusting--there is no other word that I can think of to describe it.

Do they have a right to print it? Yup. Should they have conjured up a little human dignity and a little respect and opted to NOT print it? Yup.

Voltaire: "I may not agree with what you say, but to your death I will defend your right to say it." (or something like that)

Would the left winger intelligentsia laugh that off

Just a few points on this comment
1. I don't think the left wing is laughing this off--I'm certainly not laughing
2. Jews tend to vote Democrat and be liberal--that would make them part of the left wing--I'd wager a bet they aren't laughing
3. Defending someone's right to say something is not the same as agreeing with what they said.
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greywar
greywar
Join Date 05/2003
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Reply #5 April 23, 2004 5:44:59 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
The left wingers i was refering to are the ones at Rutgers and the University aggregate:) Not you shades... And yes I feel so *dirty* for getting a "link" article on page one.
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greywar
Poetmom99
Join Date 12/2003
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Reply #6 April 23, 2004 5:55:49 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
"Defending someone's right to say something is not the same as agreeing with what they said."

Good point...to look on the up side of this incident, as someone else said, it brings their true colors more out into the open, and people who don't agree with that sentiment, such as myself, can be sure no immediate family members ever attend there, and that the university never receives our support in any way, shape or form.

I am truly disgusted by the cartoon....but I am sure it thrills the Holocaust deniers, the KKK, and others of their ilk.

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greywar
dharmagrl
Join Date 02/2004
+3
Reply #7 April 23, 2004 6:05:30 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
Yeah, very funny...hardy fucking har har.

Sorry, but I find that totally offensive and to be honest, nauseating.
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greywar
shadesofgrey
Join Date 02/2004
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Reply #8 April 23, 2004 6:11:49 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
nauseating.


That's the word I was looking for--dharma you are a far better wordsmith than I!
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greywar
Kevin the Kitten
Join Date 08/2003
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Reply #9 April 23, 2004 6:13:48 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
Well, its in appallingly bad taste. The artist deserves all the vitriolic criticism he'll no doubt get which I also defend the right of people to express.
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greywar
shadesofgrey
Join Date 02/2004
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Reply #10 April 23, 2004 6:19:42 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
The artist deserves all the vitriolic criticism he'll no doubt get which I also defend the right of people to express


I'll not only defend it--I'll encourage it!
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greywar
greywar
Join Date 05/2003
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Reply #11 April 23, 2004 10:58:55 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
I am a bit surprised that some of our jew-hating trolls have not shwon up to express their support of this.
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greywar
Corio
Join Date 08/2002
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Reply #12 April 24, 2004 6:00:34 AM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
This is just mean. And poorly made to boot. Can't think why anybody would find this even remotely funny.
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greywar
kingbee
Join Date 04/2004
+42
Reply #13 April 24, 2004 7:09:20 AM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
having now perused that issue of 'the medium' in its entirety (i hadda download it as a pdf document because the website was temporarily unavailable), my take is as follows: the authors are far guiltier of having an appalling lack of taste than advocating racial hatred or any focused agenda. theyre shooting for sophmoric but barely hitting puerile (sorta like don rickles). theyre rude and crude but generally harmless especially by comparison to the dartmouth review or the cornell review (founded by right-wing pundit ann coulter) in which a course on racism in American society was characterized as "da white man be evil an he tryin' to keep da brotherman down. we's got sharpton and farrakhan so who da...man now, white boy".
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greywar
messybuu
Join Date 05/2002
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Reply #14 April 24, 2004 10:08:56 AM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
I don't think this would be as disgusting if not for the fact that the same people who allow this to happen would demand action be taken if it were done for any other group of people. I don't mind tasteless racism, so much as I mind the hypocrisy of it.
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greywar
shadesofgrey
Join Date 02/2004
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Reply #15 April 24, 2004 4:23:14 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
I don't mind tasteless racism, so much as I mind the hypocrisy of it


um..yea, I mind racism, full stop. and just for a point of reference...what exactly would be "tasteful" racism?
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greywar
greywar
Join Date 05/2003
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Reply #16 April 24, 2004 4:36:50 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
I think that was mainly a habit of speech, much like when I say ATM machine or pregnant female or viscious lies. Who else would be pregnant?
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greywar
shadesofgrey
Join Date 02/2004
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Reply #17 April 24, 2004 5:25:35 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
ok, i'll try to refrain from being pedantic in the future
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greywar
Arquonzo
Join Date 04/2004
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Reply #18 April 25, 2004 1:40:36 AM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
What I've found recently is that I suck at debating. The reason for this is not that I haven't thought deeply about the issues, or that I can't articulate my point of view. No, the problem is that I have WAY too little patience with people bringing up the same old falacious arguments year after year. It's can be frustratingly boring! Can't we have these issues settled once and for all, and be done with it? I think it's that college culture stirring up the muck at the bottom of the lake. Like in Korea when the the students feel that they need to riot about *something* to have a complete college experience. Students in America feel they need to re-hash all the old arguments again to feel like they were part of the original debate. Ugh.
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greywar
Saint Ying
Join Date 03/2004
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Reply #19 April 25, 2004 2:29:04 AM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
Who cares

The truly disgusting thing here is the 'Holocaust complex' that causes such a knee jerk reaction when anything to do with the subject is brought up. If people would unwire that little piece of mental programming that causes them to flip in response to any 'lightened take' on the matter, and instead take a stoic and thoughtful approach, they might be better able to understand the fascism within themselves. It's really not so big a deal in a broader context. Every era has its travesties. It is quite common nowdays to parody the torture and murder instruments of previous eras, the guillotines, the crucifixions, the torture devices of the Inquisition, even the atomic bomb. The point of the cartoon is, I believe, to illustrate that it is indeed quite common for us to annihilate ourselves in the most absurd and comical ways. The students were trying to be Kafkaesque, not Hitleresque. There is no hate here, and the only victims of the cartoon are the simple minded masses with their irrational 'Holocaust Complex', whose inferior intellectual sensitivities prevent them from enjoying a peaceful gaze into the abyss or a cozy afternoon suckling upon the breast of evil. It is you whose neurons are fizzing and buzzing like angry bees, while the artists of the shock delight in your reaction.
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greywar
vincible
Join Date 04/2003
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Reply #20 April 25, 2004 3:33:49 AM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
These are the same folks who would skewer anyone else for using anything remotely rascist

same people who allow this to happen would demand action be taken if it were done for any other group of people


Why the heck do you assume it was the same people? Let's do some research before you start calling people hypocrites:

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/04/24/education/24rutgers.html

"The publication, The Medium - a journal of news and opinion that features humor, cultural items and sexual and scatological references..."
"the cartoon in the most recent edition of The Medium was the latest example in a long-running series of items that have offended various groups at the school...

As for the reaction of people not involved:
"the Rutgers president, Richard L. McCormick, said that the illustration was "outrageous in its cruelty" and called on the editors of the publication to issue an apology..."
"The university's senate, a body made up of student and faculty representatives, issued a statement on Friday noting that it "abhors" the illustration..."

In short, it's vastly misleading to imply that the "left wing inteligencia" is laughing this off.
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greywar
fussyvet
Join Date 04/2004
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Reply #21 April 25, 2004 5:51:44 AM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
I'm scared that some people can parody torture, atomic bomb or other historical tragedy. I'm afraid that people will paralyze their sense and that they will cause the same fault as past.
I don't wanna paralize my mind and cannnot parody what happend past wars as well as I don't want anyone to parody Hiroshima and Nagasaki. I've never experienced a war. So all I can do is to learn what happend and imagine how terrible people's suffering was. I guess some Jew suffer from this cartoon, especially old people who experienced Holocaust. Freedom of expression should be built on the duties which they should fulfil, the duties which are not described in constitution or laws.
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greywar
messybuu
Join Date 05/2002
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Reply #22 April 25, 2004 12:58:56 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
The truly disgusting thing here is the 'Holocaust complex' that causes such a knee jerk reaction when anything to do with the subject is brought up. If people would unwire that little piece of mental programming that causes them to flip in response to any 'lightened take' on the matter, and instead take a stoic and thoughtful approach, they might be better able to understand the fascism within themselves. It's really not so big a deal in a broader context. Every era has its travesties. It is quite common nowdays to parody the torture and murder instruments of previous eras, the guillotines, the crucifixions, the torture devices of the Inquisition, even the atomic bomb. The point of the cartoon is, I believe, to illustrate that it is indeed quite common for us to annihilate ourselves in the most absurd and comical ways. The students were trying to be Kafkaesque, not Hitleresque. There is no hate here, and the only victims of the cartoon are the simple minded masses with their irrational 'Holocaust Complex', whose inferior intellectual sensitivities prevent them from enjoying a peaceful gaze into the abyss or a cozy afternoon suckling upon the breast of evil. It is you whose neurons are fizzing and buzzing like angry bees, while the artists of the shock delight in your reaction.


1) I love your misuse of the word "fascism".
2) Surely somebody of your superior intellect can understand the difference between those examples of cruelty you mention and genocide.
3) Would people who are offended by this be all right with a comic that said: "Bomb a Jap! Only three dollars!"
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greywar
messybuu
Join Date 05/2002
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Reply #23 April 25, 2004 1:05:40 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
Thanks for the link vincible. We were wrong to assume that the left is laughing their asses off at the article. It also doesn't seem to be the first time either. Perhaps the university should change its policy on funding such drivel.
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greywar
Saint Ying
Join Date 03/2004
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Reply #24 April 25, 2004 2:16:17 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
1) I love your misuse of the word "fascism".


I didn't misuse it.

2) Surely somebody of your superior intellect can understand the difference between those examples of cruelty you mention and genocide.


The difference between ancient, medieval, and modern forms of mass murder mirrors the difference between ancient, medieval, and modern forms of warfare. Modern genocide is made possible only by new forms of technology and control. The human psychological element remains much the same. We must dispose of those humans that are undesirable, and we most do so in a fashion that is most convenient to us. It just so happens that the nazis perfected this art to the point of absurdity.

Would people who are offended by this be all right with a comic that said: "Bomb a Jap! Only three dollars!"


It would depend upon the illustration. I imagine it could be done in a similar fashion. Of course the quality of the drawing should be a little bit higher. I imagine something like the weekly newspaper comic 'Close to Home'.



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greywar
Tangled Wishes
Join Date 12/2003
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Reply #25 April 25, 2004 3:06:28 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
I guess I see that some people aren't offended by this drawing.

I am. I don't care if anyone isn't. It's disgusting, it's vile, distasteful, insensitive, cruel, unusual, and immature.

In order for someone to have drawn this, someone must have thought it was funny. I'm not Jewish, and as far as I know I don't suffer from the "Holocaust complex." And this is still disgusting.

Needless to say, it would have been disgusting had it featured *ANY* other type of person, minority OR majority, being knocked into an oven. It's not humorous if they're Jewish. It's not humorous if they're African American, Asian, Hispanic, Native American, or Caucasian. It simply isn't funny.

Yet again, it's disgusting, vile, distasteful, etc. I don't think there is any way of justifying someone finding the humor in something like this. If it wasn't meant to be "Hitleresque" they should have said so. If it was meant to be "Kafkaesque" they should have done a better job of pointing it out. And even if it wasn't meant to offend, clearly it does.

It is never funny to joke about someone's misfortunes. And the Holocaust is more than just a misfortune. It will never be funny to make jokes about the Holocaust, not today, not in fifteen years, not in five hundred years.

Period.
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