Gameplay Example: The ironic defeat

Not quite what I had in mind...

from JoeUser Forums

The year is 2225. The galaxy is on the verge of civil war. The Drengin Empire and Yor are becoming increasingly menacing in the galaxy. The Terran Alliance and their friends, the Altarian Republic struggle to build friendships with other civilizations to keep the mighty Drengin at bay. But only time will tell how events ultimately shape up.

The Terran Alliance homeworld, Earth sits in the center. The mighty Drengin Empire and the Altarian Republic are our immediate neighbors with neutrals scattered.

 My first job is to build more colonies and expand my influence. Then I will build my relations with my neighbors in an effort to fend off the Drengin Empire.

To that end, I design a faster colony ship -- the advanced colony ship -- to get my people out there, faster. (I still love designing ships I admit!).

The Drengin let me know what they think of my colonization efforts...

The consolidation of the galaxy

As the colonization phase ends and each civilization has its own territory marked, things start to get interesting. The technology rate (set by me) has been set to the the very slowest one so that technology comes very slowly. This means that players who get weapons first will be building ships for a long time versus players who go other routes (for instance, I have went for trade first and so am the only one with it).

As President of the Terran Alliance, my job is to ensure the survival of our species. That means making some tough choices.

Akilian III is a class 15 planet. To have any chance against the power of the Drengin Empire, I will need to take that world. And in terms of using trade as a weapon, I am also going to have some trade with the Drengin Empire. We're not openly at war yet and I am hoping they will put their adventures elsewhere while I build up.

My first offensive ship is the F-1 Wisp. It has a single laser canon on the bottom. It is quite primitive. It's little more than a space shuttle with a single weapon.

Pride. I have none. I give in to their demand.

What has me concerned is this. The Drengin Empire (red line) are doing almost twice as much research as I am.  In fact, I'm now in last place.  This is something I must correct or I'm doomed.

The Altarians and I make some deals.

The United Planets makes a deal with regards to how starbases operating outside their sphere of influence should be treated.

The sparks become fire

With the first real war now underway, I have an opportunity to study the Drengin Empire's military hardware.

The Akilians and I are not at war. They do not know about our long-term goals. But their successful stealing of Drengin technology makes them interesting for now.

The evil Drengin get theirs finally. Well, not really. But they are distracted.

Meanwhile, the Torians have put out their latest hardware, the Mark II fighter.

It's basically the same as my fighters except they have better engines.

While they are distracted, I begin my move against the Akilians.  But I must be delicate because it's a huge military build up right in the Drengin's backyard.

The Drath are crushed by the Drengin Empire.

Time to bribe the Drengin Empire.

 

The Akilians notice my move! Is it too late?

Out in the fog of war, the Akilians had a ship. A ship that is now rampaging.  It destroyed all 5 of my transports! Ack! One freaking ship. Just didn't see it parked out there.

My invasion is thwarted.

And my long-term strategy is in ruins...

The Drengin Empire are steamrolling over all its opponents.  My successful sucking up has kept me out for now. But the Drengin have control of much of the galaxy and the Altarians are going down. And I can't even take out a freaking neutral!

I quickly send in the F-2 Warrior. It's still basically a shuttle but now it has two laser canons instead of 1. The problem is, the Akilians have the Drengin technologies they stole and so their ships are quite nasty.

And so now the Altarians are gone too.

The fat lady is warming up...

The very next week after the Altarian Republic was destroyed (not surrendered but annihilated by the Drengin Empire) I get:

This is bad. My trade routes wiped out (Altarians and Drengin). I'm doomed.

I sell my soul to the other civilizations to get some technologies so that I can design a next generation fighter years early.

And with that I build the F-3 Vigil.

3 advanced laser canons.  I also make peace with the Akilians since I can't spread my forces between them.  The other ship, the one I combined both human and alien technology to design is the F-4 Condor. 4 attack. Will it be enough?

Homeland Magazine has a devastating article. The Drengin Empire have a military rating of 664 and ours is only 96. They massively outpower us.

My fleets are a joke compared to theirs. Their three sips average an attack of 6. Mine average an attack of 1. Worse, my fighters are no match for their frigates.

Florin I is now gone. I have two worlds left.

One of the few times we're evenly matched in a battle. And my first military victory against the Drengin Empire.

Not that I should get too excited because they have more where that came from.

There would be no peace. The next week Cordelia III was taken by the Drengin.

In a final bit of irony, the Akilians declare war on me, the minor race I sought to destroy is invading Earth.

In the end, I'm conquered by the Akilians. So ironic that the minor race I sought to destroy would ultimately defeat me. Not a proud moment for the human race.

Yes. I'm dead.

The Drengin would go on to conquer the galaxy.  What would be done with the survivors would ultimately be up to them.  As for the Akilians, even as I write this, they and their Drengin friends are sitting in a chair in a pub in Plymouth Michigan laughing at the foolishness of humans. A human skull acts as their mug.

So...how did I lose?

I read on-line how people find the game "too easy".  Which makes me wonder if they're playing the same game I am.  I'm a pretty good strategy game player. I don't see how I could have won this particular game.

Here were my settings:

  • All players on Intelligent except for Drengin who were on Gifted
  • Occasional good planets
  • All players in
  • Medium sized galaxy
  • Technology rate changed to be very slow

I went for Trade early on then moved to military while I built up trade routes. I had plenty of money and was able to buy lots of ships (especially thanks to the trade). I built starbases to improve my economy and trade and production.  Overall, it was a pretty decent strategy I thought.

If I had to do it over again, I would have gone for military first, got minit, and taken out the Akilians much earlier so that I could then build up a much better world (none of us had any really high quality planets). 

127,589 views 30 replies
Reply #1 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Really nice report Frogboy!!

Nice to see one of the Minors doing more than acting as target practice!! Just wish we could get them more like first draft GCI and have them expand to a degree through colonization too. More fun as getting hit by a minor with 4 planets means more of a challenge for me and the AI's.

Oh and i am shocked you of all people got beaten

People the Frog god is not all knowing after all
Reply #2 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Serves you right for playing Neville Chamberlain to Lord Kona's Adolf Hitler... If you feed the dragon, it's only going to get bigger.

Perhaps if you'd fought the Drengi while they were still up against the Altarians?

I had a similar situation in my last game. I was being the Torians, and the Drengi decided that they prefered us when we used to be slaves. They didn't quite have the same technological lead as in your game, in fact we were pretty much even, only their military bonuses gave them the edge.

For every fleet of theirs I killed, they took out about 1 and a half of mine. But I won because I took their planets quickly, allowing me to out-produce them. Going head-to-head with a superior military is suicide.
Siege of Centauri
Reply #3 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I'm sorry but I have to laugh. Though it is nice that the minors actually will do something.
Reply #4 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
V1mTip™: "Pitt's cavalry"
Reply #5 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
BTW I found the AI in 1.3 noticably meaner. I can still outplay it at 5/Gifted/Gigantic, but I have to work for it.

Thank you.


Now give me more!
Reply #6 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
That is hilarious! I have never seen a minor do that before! I would live it if they would do that kind of thing more often.
Reply #7 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
So...how did I lose?


I have several thoughts but I usually play Small, Medium or Large maps with 3-5 opponents mostly with random everything. (I play on Crippling and win 2-3 times the games I lose - more before 1.3, kudos ). I will try your settings in case some of my thoughts aren't applicable with so many races in the galaxy.
Reply #8 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Your not alone Frogboy!

I have been soundly defeated by Tough AIs for the past 3-4 games. Only now it starts to look bit better as I have changed my building strategy abit
Reply #9 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Ah, why are you giving stuff to the enemy! Every time an enemy makes a threat against me, I tell them to bite me!
Reply #10 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I iwsh the Minors were more challenging like this on a regular basis... it would really spice up the game.
Reply #11 from Stardock Forums Top
Heh, I made the mistake of conquering 3 minor races as Yor, then going to attack Terran.
Result: All the other 8 major races declared war to me. Most of them because of my warmongering ways, the Drengin because someone paid them.
However, I'm still winning. I've killed the Terrans, Thalans and Iconians now. The Drengin are probably next and they are the only threat to my armada of medium, large, and a couple of huge ships.

Game Stats:
All AIs gifted.
Gigantic map with 140 planets.

I've noticed that the game is harder in 1.3 but Yor is still the easy race with their excellent inherent bonuses and quite a few bonus points (50% manufacturing bonus FTW). Also, Mind Control Center with it's 100% economic ability bonus needs to fixed ASAP. Without that, I would have been overwhelmed by the four AI:s that were simultaneously attacking me and probably lost. If I wouldn't have been in such a dire situation, I wouldn't have built it.
And getting a 700% production bonus tile on my homeplanet helped a little too (without any control-N of course, that's lame)
Reply #12 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Well, at least it wasn't the squirrels. . .

I have yet to try a game with those settings. I usually go for games in larger galaxies with less players, giving everything the chance to colonise around eight worlds before the bulk of the game starts. That makes for some rather long games, of course. . .
Reply #14 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I read on-line how people find the game "too easy". Which makes me wonder if they're playing the same game I am. I'm a pretty good strategy game player. I don't see how I could have won this particular game.

In v1.0, v1.1, and v1.2 (I have not yet played v1.3), it is easy to bet the "Intelligent" and "Gifted" AIs because they are poor at planet building and do not make go use of their ships. I have not found trade routes to be all that useful in the game. Diplomacy is better for staying out of war and it helps with getting better deals when buying/selling/trading technology. Speed is important during the colony rush and speed combined with sensor range (Eyes of the Universe is very useful) is critical to mobilizing your ships for attacking and defending.

Out in the fog of war, the Akilians had a ship. A ship that is now rampaging. It destroyed all 5 of my transports! Ack! One freaking ship. Just didn't see it parked out there.

You sent out unarmed transports Akilian III without an armed escort! With what were you going to take out their planetary defender? The only time I send troop transports alone it when they have 15 sensor range thanks to EotU and enough speed to out run any enemy armed ships.
Reply #15 from GalCiv2 Forums Top

Gigantic and tiny maps are the two easiest ways to win.

Tiny because of rushing and Gigantic because you can usually control the flow of battle.

For a real challenge, play on medium.  We're probably going to update the Metaverse scoring so that there's a general set of bonuses as you approach medium.

Reply #16 from GalCiv2 Forums Top

You sent out unarmed transports Akilian III without an armed escort! With what were you going to take out their planetary defender? The only time I send troop transports alone it when they have 15 sensor range thanks to EotU and enough speed to out run any enemy armed ships.

I had ships at the panet and was just following up with transports. I thought the way was cleared.

Reply #17 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
"Out in the fog of war, the Akilians had a ship. A ship that is now rampaging. It destroyed all 5 of my transports! Ack! One freaking ship. Just didn't see it parked out there."

Well that explains it doesn't it?

Perhaps its no wonder the AIs do the same

You always leave your transports covered, or out of range (that is within your sensor area). You never leave them unprotected unless you don't care about what happens to them.

Anyway, I think you also got it right about it being a mistake to push for trade first. Trade can be useful, but its not as good as either military or simply pushing up your own ability to be self reliant (through ethos, governments, or industry/econ/research branches). I've also noted that trade with the Evils isn't of much use (to disuade them from declaring on you), unless you manage to get a large% of their economy from you. If they arn't also establishing routes with you this will not happen (often) unless you are neutral and get your 10+ routes with them.

I suppose I'm glad to see that you lost, in the sense that it shows the AIs are getting more competent all the time, however, I'm still seeing enough suboptimal behavior with transports and fleet operations generally that are too easy to overcome with FAST interceptor type ships. Then again, I usually rush up to warp engines and at some point rush out the Eyes so coverage of my sectors is really good and I can happily ignore their war fleets while just picking off the transports until I have the proper counter to the war fleets.

Perhaps this game example will pursuade you to code the AIs to not launch transports unless they have covering FLEETS (not just an escort ship or two) and to keep the invasion fleets stacked with the war fleets, even if the speed difference is noticable.

All in all though I have to say 1.3A is really nice, you've done tremendous work in getting the AIs economies and plantary builds to be better, now if you can just find the trick to getting their military operations a bit more focused...
Reply #18 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Gigantic and tiny maps are the two easiest ways to win. Tiny because of rushing and Gigantic because you can usually control the flow of battle. For a real challenge, play on medium. We're probably going to update the Metaverse scoring so that there's a general set of bonuses as you approach medium.

I play metaverse games against 9 genius opponents, gigantic map, everything abundant, and very fast research (makes the AI more aggressive early on when I'm playing catch up) because they make for higher scoring games.

On gigantic maps, when taking over an AI player, you need to:
(1) destory and rebuild (with weapons, defenses, and all mining modules) his mining resources (especially military)
(2) destory all other starbases (especially military)
(3) invade all his 10+ planets (10-50 in my games depending how late in the game it is and if the AI has conquered other players)
in a single turn! Once I have all his good planets, he either surrenders or I make peace and let the remaining planets culture flip.
Reply #19 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
For a real challenge, play on medium. We're probably going to update the Metaverse scoring so that there's a general set of bonuses as you approach medium.


Excellent, I like playing medium maps. U could be correct about medium being harder, I certainly have had my most interesting games on medium maps. Can still beat it on suicidal thou...  

Can not really get my head around anyone being knocked out by a minor race...  they only survive in my galaxies as my loyal allied pets.
Reply #20 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I get "Access Denied - You do not have access to the requested area/page. Please create an account or login if you already have one." when I try to edit my post above. Here is the edit:

Gigantic and tiny maps are the two easiest ways to win. Tiny because of rushing and Gigantic because you can usually control the flow of battle. For a real challenge, play on medium. We're probably going to update the Metaverse scoring so that there's a general set of bonuses as you approach medium.

I play metaverse games against 9 genius opponents, gigantic map, everything abundant, and very fast research (makes the AI more aggressive early on when I'm playing catch up) because they make for higher scoring games.

On gigantic maps, when taking over an AI player, you need to:
(1) destroy and rebuild (with weapons, defenses, and all mining modules) his mining resources (especially military)
(2) destroy all other starbases (especially military)
(3) destroy all fleets and transports that would threaten any of my existing planets or about to be conquered planets
(4) invade all his 10+ planets (10-50 in my games depending how late in the game it is and if the AI has conquered other players)
in a single turn!
Protecting dozens of transports and newly conquered planets (you have to be careful to spot transports that pop up the next turn on the AI's remaining planets next to your new ones). Once I have all his good planets, he either surrenders or I make peace and let the remaining planets culture flip.

I think medium maps would be more fun, as managing 200+ planets plus around 10-20 ships built each turn involves a lot of micro-mangement.
Reply #21 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Gigantic and tiny maps are the two easiest ways to win.

Tiny because of rushing and Gigantic because you can usually control the flow of battle.

For a real challenge, play on medium. We're probably going to update the Metaverse scoring so that there's a general set of bonuses as you approach medium.


That's fantastic, I always play medium crippling games, very slow research.

I could use the boost

Mark



Reply #22 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
We're probably going to update the Metaverse scoring so that there's a general set of bonuses as you approach medium.

I play Metaverse games against 9 genius opponents, gigantic map, everything abundant, and very fast research (makes the AI more aggressive early on when I'm playing catch up) because they make for higher scoring games. However, they also make for very long games. It took all of May and June for my first Metaverse game and I'm nearing the end of my 2nd which I started in early July (I have very limited time to play the game)! Playing against AIs on genius on gigantic maps requires lots of micro-management; in the early game you need to get the most possible out of each turn! Please, take that into consideration when making any scoring adjustments!
Reply #23 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Out in the fog of war, the Akilians had a ship. A ship that is now rampaging. It destroyed all 5 of my transports! Ack! One freaking ship. Just didn't see it parked out there


I always send a few ships(the ones I can afford to lose)to scout it out before I go
sending in my Invasion force, for which I sucked up(the drengin lapdog)for countless months and spent so many times as much just buying time

Reply #24 from Stardock Forums Top
Gigantic and tiny maps are the two easiest ways to win.

Tiny because of rushing and Gigantic because you can usually control the flow of battle.

For a real challenge, play on medium. We're probably going to update the Metaverse scoring so that there's a general set of bonuses as you approach medium.

I don't know if this was directed at me. If it was, I thought I made it very clear that I had no way of controlling the flow of battle with four AIs sending all the fleets they could at me simultaneosly.

I was at war with all 9 races at the same time, they all wanted to kill me simply because I had conquered 3 minors and attacked the Terrans. All 8 of them declared war on me before I had conquered the Terrans which meant that I had to fight a multi-front war against all of them. The 4 closest races sent masses of fleets at me and they all had a larger military rating than me. The Drengin had the best attack rating per ship of all races. Heck, even some of there transports had 40 in attack.

Sure, gigantic maps might be easy in general. But generally doesn't mean always as I'm sure you know. I have probably never been this challenged before on any map-size.
I would probably be dead now if it wasn't for three things:
1) I'm Yor.
2) I built the Mind Control Center.
3) I took advantage of the fact that Drengin used beams, and all the other races used missiles. They countered my guns very badly, they have begun to countering them now but now it's too late.

I have also noted that nearly all AIs are friendly with each other but none of them are close to any other, none of them have any alliances. Shouldn't some of them try to form alliances?
Reply #25 from Stardock Forums Top
I remembered another one (and I can't edit my above post for some reason):

4) The Drengin has a planet with a 700% prod.tile and they haven't built a factory on it. In fact, they haven't any factories at all on that planet and I have played at least 5 years now. I posted some more information about this a few days ago in the official bug thread.