But Cacto, Parated isn't an Muslim Extremist!

Seriously, Parated, if you want to talk, let's talk.

I'll talk openly and sincerely with you in the calmest fashion if you do the same.

That's a Def. Promise.

If you don't want to do so here then you know where to find my profile and the email to match it. We can always agree to disagree if we can't find common ground.

I'm certain you're not actually personally threatening me, but I will let you know that I believe in the 2d amendment as much as I do the 1st so to any Muslim Extremist wanting to make me their next guest I say, " Come on down."

When Neo is meeting with the Oracle, the music playing in the background in her apartment is Duke Ellington\'s \"I\'m Beginning to See the Light\".

Watch this video:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=lkKbE9qCzQo


America is a great force for freedom and prosperity. Yet our greatness is not measured in power or luxuries, but by who we are and how we treat one another. So we strive to be a compassionate, decent, hopeful society.

In recent years, America has become a more hopeful nation. Violent crime rates have fallen to their lowest levels since the 1970s. Welfare cases have dropped by more than half over the past decade. Drug use among youth is down 19 percent since 2001. There are fewer abortions in America than at any point in the last three decades, and the number of children born to teenage mothers has been falling for a dozen years in a row.

These gains are evidence of a quiet transformation -- a revolution of conscience, in which a rising generation is finding that a life of personal responsibility is a life of fulfilment. Government has played a role. Wise policies, such as welfare reform and drug education and support for abstinence and adoption have made a difference in the character of our country. And everyone here tonight, Democrat and Republican, has a right to be proud of this record.

Yet many Americans, especially parents, still have deep concerns about the direction of our culture, and the health of our most basic institutions. They\'re concerned about unethical conduct by public officials, and discouraged by activist courts that try to redefine marriage. They worry about children in our society who need direction and love, and about fellow citizens still displaced by natural disaster, and about suffering caused by treatable diseases.

As we look at these challenges, we must never give in to the belief that America is in decline, or that our culture is doomed to unravel. The American people know better than that. We have proven the pessimists wrong before -- and we will do it again.

-- GWB


Gods of Metal Worship:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=vR-XmoVAoD0

Deference

Seriously, Parated, if you want to talk, let's talk. I'll talk openly and sincerely with you in the calmest fashion if you do the same. That's a Def. Promise. If you don't want to do so here then you know where to find my profile and the email to match it. We can always agree to disagree if we can't find common ground. I'm certain you're not actually personally threatening me, but I will let you know that I believe in the 2d amendment as much as I do the 1st so to any Muslim Extremist wanting to make me their next guest I say, " Come on down."

Over the time we have both been here at JU we have talked. We have left comments to each other a lot. Mostly what I get from you is "when in doubt, blame America... and never give America the benefit of any doubt".... No, I really don't wish death on you, what I wish on you is that you be forced to live the way you callously wish on the people of Iraq. You speak of the U.S. Constitution, and you enjoy the right enumerated in it, but you resent any rights for the people of Iraq. In some article or comment, you may have said something beyond that myopic view (in fairness, I can't say I have read everything you have written), but from what I get, you're all about letting the Bacteria in Iraq run wild over the people there, so as long as you wish that on them, I wish the same for you.

my basic message is, after hearing all the arguments (and non-arguments, )so far, is that there may be a better option in this War on Terror other than"staying the course". After all that's happened, I don't think anybody, even those in the highest levels of government, remains satisfied with the disastrous results of the Iraq invasion, much less, after the years of effort
of trying to stabilize the country. After all those years and the bloody outcome, haven't we come to the conclusion that the method we have chosen to fight this war is not working ?We're clearly doing something wrong here. It's so easy to churn out motherhood statements and rally everyone to the flag and that's in everyone's hearts, but dear God, this is a fiasco we're doing. We have to examine whether scorching the(Iraqis') house is the best way to get rid of the termites. If we were to use Parated's analogy of bacteria, the more we can't use a scorch-earth policy because the Nurse and the doctors get burned together with the patient. Remember throwing out the baby with bath water?I think I've been consistent about this in my previous posts which deals with the value of unconventional strategies in dealing with this war. We do, in fact need Muslim allies to win this War. Oh, well. I've said my piece.

Def, Ted, I think you guys have your hearts (and guts ) in the right place., but try chilling it out and talk issues, ok?

"when in doubt, blame America...and never give America the benefit of any doubt" -

No, I've never said that, you're putting words in my mouth. Any time you see me expressing discontent with the Iraq situation I don't blame 'America' I criticize the people that are supposed to be making good judgement calls on our behalf - that's it.

.... No, I really don't wish death on you, what I wish on you is that you be forced to live the way you callously wish on the people of Iraq. - Parated2k

This is simply insincere. Who in Iraq do you personally know? Speak with on a regular basis? Care for? Name one person you know. Now, why the Iraqi people, specifically? Why haven't I heard or seen you speak about the poor people in Darfur? In suffering of those in Sudan? Even the poor little kids growing up in American inner city ghettos - I've not seen one post or thread from you on those people's suffering. I'm guessing it's because George Dub hasn't addressed those as issues to make as part of his political agenda as much as he has Iraqi citizens.

Do I hate the Iraqi's? No. I don't know anybody in Iraq. On a humanitarian level, I certainly empathize with their situation, but as a realist, I understand there is only so much we can do to help them. We need to take care of our people first. We should give free healthcare to our people before we bankroll an entire other nation, don't you think?

Def, Ted, I think you guys have your hearts (and guts ) in the right place., but try chilling it out and talk issues, ok?

Yeah, Scatter, I admit to getting a bit extreme there, but to me there isn't much difference between Americans calling for us to abandon the people of Iraq to the bacteria and me calling for them to put their money where their rhetoric is and go be the guests of the bacteria themselves.

P.S. Just for the record, I never wished for Deference.. or anyone else... to be killed by terrorists. ;~D

In the Oracle\'s waiting room, the television is showing white rabbits (which, at the beginning of the film, Neo was instructed to follow) from Night of the Lepus (1972).

www.youtube.com/watch?v=rINKezJ_EYw


Speaking to American Legion members gathered in Salt Lake City, Bush said, \"As veterans, you have seen this kind of enemy before. They are successors to fascists, to Nazis, to communists and other totalitarians of the 20th century. And history shows what the outcome will be; This war will be difficult; this war will be long; and this war will end in the defeat of the terrorists and totalitarians, and a victory for the cause of freedom and liberty.\"

\"Some politicians look at our efforts in Iraq and see a diversion from the war on terror,\" Bush said. \"That would come as news to Osama bin Laden, who proclaimed that the Third World War is raging in Iraq. It would come as news to the No. 2 man of al Qaeda, Zawahiri, who has called the struggle in Iraq, \'the place for the greatest battle.\' \"

\"The security of the civilized world depends on victory in the war on terror and that depends on victory in Iraq. So the United States of America will not leave until victory is achieved.\"

\"The war we fight today is more than a military conflict,\" the president said. \"It is the decisive ideological struggle of the 21st century. On one side are those who believe in the values of freedom and moderation ... and on the other side are those driven by the values of tyranny and extremism,\" the president said.


Watch this PBS documentary video:
The Secret Government
www.youtube.com/watch?v=AnF7y5wyDcI

"The war we fight today is more than a military conflict,\" the president said. \"It is the decisive ideological struggle of the 21st century." - Obsession

-Tell me what concrete steps have we done to address the problem of ideology? Have we organized Americans to look into this? Have we encouraged ,supported and funded them to work with allied Muslims to counteract the twisted rhetoric the imams are giving the potential terrorists? -coordinated these efforts with our military operations instead of making conventional warfare the centerpiece of the War? No, we just rely on tanks, troops,and bombs and say, we'll have everything under control, maybe in a few years and we should just stay the course, even if the battle statistics and set goals of the war become unmeasurable. So, why pursue something that's not working? If this is indeed the decisive ideological struggle it's suppose to be, then we don't seem to be addressing it., sadly.

Oh, and Obsession, we'd certainly like to hear your own thoughts about this, instead of Pres. Bush's. You do have some of your own, don't you?

Have we organized Americans to look into this? Have we encouraged ,supported and funded them to work with allied Muslims to counteract the twisted rhetoric the imams are giving the potential terrorists?

That's part of the problem. Islam has no central leadership, so even though there are some very outspoken Immams, none have either the authority of clout to "unite" Islam under any kind of agreement. The Immams who call for unity with western culture have just as much say as the ones calling for the death of all "infidels". By that same token, even if every Immam called for peace, no Muslim would be under any kind of requirement to fall in line.

Which is another reason we aren't at war with Islam, but with people who have decided that the only people who should be allowed to live are Muslims. The two reporters who were recently released are case-in-point of this. No Islamic leader demanded that they convert to Islam or die... those demands were made by just a bunch of cowards who think so little of their own faith that they would turn to threats instead of relying on teaching their doctrine and real, heart felt, spiritual conversion.

"Which is another reason we aren't at war with Islam, but with people who have decided that the only people who should be allowed to live are Muslims." - ParaTed2k

Exactly. The ideological war is actually between Islam and Terrorists villifying Islam. True Muslims actually have a duty to confront this terrorist ideology destroying their own religion.
It is a problem actually to be resolved between and among Muslims while we ,as the targeted "infidels" should focus on our intelligence and unconventional (covert /open) operations for our defense, rather than relying on open conventional fighting against suspected Muslim nations.
My beef is: In this ideological warfare, this contradiction, which offers us a good window to win this war , has not only been ignored but is being confusedly defined (deliberately/indeliberately) as a war between the West and Islamic countries under a broader "Freedom vs. Terrorism( now, Islamo-fascism)"war cry. This call has politically justified the Iraqi invasion by US forces which now (plus Afghanistan) may even lead into a 3 front war if Iran is included in the equation. We are exactly playing into the Terrorists' hands.
The strategy and tactics of the enemy has shown that a protracted people's war is being employed on a global basis. In such a protracted war, the enemy's number one asset, is ideology, hardware is secondary, and its aim is to weaken our resources - militarily and politically ,like bees could weaken a maddened bull. Therefore, it is this ideology we should start to address.The catchphrase, "if we don't fight them in Iraq, we'll be fighting them here in US streets" is also misleading since our best defense lies really in securing our borders annd ports and coordinating well with police and intelligence counterparts in the rest of the world. Invading another suspected Muslim country will only increase the ranks of terrorists

Watch this PBS documentary video: The Secret Government

---Obsession

Is it about Hillary's presidency during the 90s?

"Is it about Hillary's presidency during the 90s?" - Rightwinger

Huh?!!? Just what has this comment got to do with our options in this war? It's just unfortunate that my post should come at a time when elections are again nearing, and people reading may probably get tempted to insert something politically partisan instead of trying to study the issues. When people start inserting argumentum ad hominems, we will never get anywhere.
Anyway, all things considered, I think the point of this post has been well ventilated. Thank you all for participating.

Huh?!!? Just what has this comment got to do with our options in this war? It's just unfortunate that my post should come at a time when elections are again nearing, and people reading may probably get tempted to insert something politically partisan instead of trying to study the issues. When people start inserting argumentum ad hominems, we will never get anywhere. Anyway, all things considered, I think the point of this post has been well ventilated. Thank you all for participating.

---scatter

It was a joke. So very sorry.

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