Libs, others in congress cry over charges for evac-ing

2003 law requires evacuees of foreign countries to pay transport costs

Time for me to earn my stripes as a cold, cruel, heartless member of the hard right-wing conservative crowd (though I would normally consider myself a moderate individual that may lean a little right at times).

It seems that congress had gotten wised-up back in 2003 and decided that whenever U.S. citizens are evacuated from another country (especially where hostilities have broken out???) that those individuals will have to pay their own way for their transportation to safety.

Sorry to break the news to anyone disaffected by that law, but personally I think it's a pretty good one. If you choose to be in harms way, then darn straight, you are to be responsible for your own tail and you should be the one paying the freight if you stayed around just a little too long and are left needing the emergency ride out of town.

We all make choices in life, and while I understand that some people feel that they may not be able to make different choices because of their income and own economic situations, choosing to work in, or live in an area where things may become hostile for your own safety is not a good decision. I salute the men and women that choose to take risks and know in advance that they may have to leave at a moments notice to leave behind an area that was seemingly friendly but suddenly has become inhospitable to them, but normally those individuals are being compensated by their employers for the added risk, and if they were to take any other means of travel out of the area they most certainly would be paying costs to do so. Why anyone would feel that the U.S. government should be paying to transport them to safety -- other than perhaps the costs to station U.S. Marine (or other services) guards to help keep them safe -- is beyond me.

Unfortunately a few liberal leaners in congress, including many that ACTUALLY VOTED FOR THE LAW THEY ARE NOW DECRYING, are upset that these costs are being passed on, or at least are being attempted to be passed on by the U.S. State department who is making evacuees sign paper work acknowledging that they owe the transportation costs for their hasty exits from Lebanon and other similar war zone/hostile areas.

How we'll ever get close to any sort of budget discipline is beyond me, given that we continue to give money away on issues like this protecting the hides of people that made their own choices. Again, assisting these people in getting evacuated and even providing the transportation is the right thing to do, but it does not mean that the costs should be placed on the backs of the U.S. tax-payers. Give the bills to the people taking the trips and let them get the money back from their employers. That is as it should be.
6,470 views 19 replies
Reply #1 Top
The space below is reserved for idiotic replies that blame Bush for the entire mess and cry over the idea that if we weren't wasting money in Iraq we'd have plenty of spare coin to spend on such trivial matters as evacuating citizens that are stranded in areas where hostilities suddenly break out. You know the replies are coming saying just those things....
Reply #2 Top
I can understand Joe Blow working in Lebanon and having to pay for his own extraction. But does this include Embassy workers and people who are there on behalf of the US Government in the first place? I must admit that I am unfamiliar with this law.
Reply #3 Top
But does this include Embassy workers and people who are there on behalf of the US Government in the first place?


I don't believe it does because those people would be agents of the U.S. government and their agency would be responsible for their transportation, but I don't know the details either.

I know the whole issue was being discussed on CNN's Situation Room show (with Wolfie Blitzer...) At the time there was talk that good ol' Crazy Nancy Pelosi and Screamin' Howie Dean were upset about the issue. I'll give a little credit where due though in that CNN was going back to name names of some of the complainers that actually voted *for* the law.

The White House, through spokesperson/press Secretary Tony Snow, basically tossed the issue back at Congress saying that they passed the law and could change it. Whether they will or not remains to be seen. I guess it depends on how much heat they get from either side.

Not that I ever go there, but I would guess that CNN might have more info on the law on their web site....
Reply #4 Top
I'm a little mixed on this issue, it sounds a lot like the demands for adventurers who find themselves in need of local search and rescue services....



The logic is basically the same... the people needing rescue put themselves into the precarious position in the first place.... why should the taxpayers have to pay for the victim's stupity. The proponents of charging for services go on to say that search and rescue teams have to go out of their way and risk their lives to get find and rescue them...



The thing is, the team members didn't go through all that training, and recert testing to sit around a base camp twiddling their thumbs. Furthermore, professional rescue teams are getting paid whether they are sitting watching Coyote Ugly for the 50th time, or climbing around the rocks figuring out the best way to unrock the victim. When we get called out to help, it isn't "out of our way", it's our job.



In the case of evacuating expats, the law is clear. As long as they are still US citizens, the embassies have a responsibility to them. That is one of the purposes on embassies in the first place. Embassies have staff members designated for such occurances... they also have budgeted funds for it.



We don't leave soldiers behind, or citizens to the mercy of foreign governments or insurgents. To me the only time anyone who needs rescuing should get billed is if they were either breaking the law when they got into whatever trouble they were being rescued from.... of if they needed rescuing because of their own negligence.
Reply #5 Top
If you decide to go spelunking, dont come crying to me on a cave in.  It was your choice. and your cost to drag your butt out of there.
Reply #6 Top
Did you see Glenn Beck's TV show last night?
He did a vacation ad for the middle east - it was hilarious.
Stupidity costs - if you're a jackass on vacation in a hot spot - pay up for the rescue - no one forced you to go.

p/s Bugged-eyed Nancy would complain if we were paying.
Reply #7 Top
Sure, we should get try to get them out. But why should it be free?

I mean, they're going home the same way they got there...at their own expense. Only this time they've got the added benefit of beefed up security for their journey.

My husband considers it a "punitive measure" for those who choose to live/travel there despite gov't warnings about such places.
Reply #8 Top
Dr. Guy:
If you decide to go spelunking, dont come crying to me on a cave in. It was your choice. and your cost to drag your butt out of there.
So what risky behavior do we take that attitude with and which don't we? "you're the one who got in that car, you knew the risks of an accident!" "you ate that crap, now you're fat and dying of heat disease!" We could disolve the entire medical profession! I agree with Texas...
Sure, we should get try to get them out. But why should it be free? I mean, they're going home the same way they got there...at their own expense. Only this time they've got the added benefit of beefed up security for their journey.
Reply #9 Top

So what risky behavior do we take that attitude with and which don't we? "you're the one who got in that car, you knew the risks of an accident!"

We already pay for that Ted. It is called Insurance.

Reply #10 Top
Dr. Guy:
We already pay for that Ted. It is called Insurance.


Insurance doesn't cover the firefighters on the extrication team, it also doesn't cover the municiple, tax supported ambulance service. It also doesn't cover many types of causes of accidents deemed "high risk" by the insurance company....

The fact is, we have a lot of intrastructure programs whose sole purpose is to "evacuate" us from high risk, but common activities. If the Americans in Lebonon were there legally, they are entitled to any and all services available through the consulate. Now I'd have no problem with them being charged for evac, but no more than it would have cost for their return ticket, and spread over a reasonable time.
Reply #11 Top
Whip, you need to get your meds adjusted or start taking some...

I have not said I don't have sympathy for the people stuck behind the lines, that shouldn't have to be said at all. It should be easy enough to assume that is the case.

With that said though, I go back to the main point that there are choices that get made about where someone wants to live and work. Again, I know that circumstances change and what was at one point a nice friendly area can all of the sudden be the next Iran with Death to America signs all over the place.

The people living outside the United States are always taking a risk, sometimes at a much greater scale than what they started out with. I still maintain that I should not be asked to pay the freight to get those folks out of the country when things go to hell in a handbasket.

I'll offer an analogy you might better understand and see where you go here.

Lets take a young female and introduce them to a male. Lets let them consider behavior they wish to enter into and as they do, lets realize that they have sex and the female winds up pregnant. Who is responsible for paying for an abortion based upon the decisions and risks that the couple took?

I could get nasty and give you a color for the individuals involved, and I suppose you could get picky and start inquiring about what my take is if the pregnancy is the result of a rape (an unexpected event).

I suppose a better analogy is one like this:

Young couple buys a home in what was a nice neighborhood. Over time noisy neighbors move in. Crackheads. Another resident starts turning tricks out of their homes. Gang bangers start taking over. The choice is move out, right? Who takes the loss on the property values? What happens if the home is unsaleable? Whose fault is it that the neighborhood went to hell and who gets to pay because of it? Would you really want to have to give up tax money to help those people move out when they should have been smart enough to see the decline around them as it was happening?
Reply #12 Top
These are our fellow citizens we're talking about people! Not even soldiers! Their lives are in danger through no fault of their own, Beirut has been relatively calm and peaceful for many years now, and the situation developed so rapidly that no one had a chance to get out, remember, the airport was destroyed first.


In danger through no fault of their own? I disagree.

Anytime you voluntarily travel to the Middle East, you are in danger, through fault of your own.

The US shouldn't turn its back on its people, but why should the rest of us have to foot the bill for those people's poor choices? Someone above suggested allowing them to pay it out. It's not like they should be subjected to extortion. I can't see any reason, though, why it would be wrong for them to have to compensate the government for their trip back home.

For the longest time, service members had to pay for their trips home and back for mid-deployment R&R. And service members are in those places on ORDERS, not because they wanted to take little Sarah for a fun-filled visit to an out-of-the-ordinary vacation spot to impress the neighbors or because they found a lucrative position that pays 5 times what they made at their piddly government job in the states.

Maybe my sympathy chip is broken. I just can't understand what's so appalling about asking these people to pitch in on the expense.
Reply #13 Top
Insurance doesn't cover the firefighters on the extrication team, it also doesn't cover the municiple, tax supported ambulance service. It also doesn't cover many types of causes of accidents deemed "high risk" by the insurance company....


No, that is when the EMS gets your tail out of trouble, and then sends you the bill. Now in an accident (as it is AN accident) that does not happen. But if they have to pull you out of a river due to raging currents, you are going to get billed.

I am not saying that accident victims should. The insurance remark was just facetious. But many EMS are now charging for rescues. Whether they collect or not is another matter.
Reply #14 Top

No, that is when the EMS gets your tail out of trouble, and then sends you the bill. Now in an accident (as it is AN accident) that does not happen. But if they have to pull you out of a river due to raging currents, you are going to get billed.

I am not saying that accident victims should. The insurance remark was just facetious. But many EMS are now charging for rescues. Whether they collect or not is another matter.

That all depends on the system... but if a system is tax based (which would bring it more in line with the topic of the article), no one gets a bill... it's basically "your tax dollars at work".  As for the search and rescue team pulling the river rats out of the drink... unless it is illegal to run the particular rapids in question, no the victims usuallly won't get the bill.  As I said, we who have worked our butts off to train, certify, retrain and recertify in EMS, Search & Rescue, Firefighting, or whatever, didn't go through all that to sit around a station or base camp, responding to the calls are the job, not an interuption of it... Us going out and risking our lives to save the "victim" of their own adrenalin fix isn't "above and beyond", it's the reason we did all that training in the first place.  It shouldn't cost the people involved anything extra if the rescue team is paid and supported by the taxpayers... now in the case of a private SAR team, EMS or Fire team... Sure, they should then get the bill.

Reply #15 Top
We need to just go get these folks, if they can pay after they are safely removed, let them pay.


I think that is all they are being asked to do, LW. From the stories I've heard, they are asked to sign something to the effect of being responsible for charges. I don't think it's as if they will be left behind if they don't have cash in hand.
Reply #16 Top
I agree to a large degree with Little-Whip. How can you be sure what parts of the world are safe to trafel to and which parts aren't? You listen to your government. They advise you as they are the experts on foreign affairs. And if they say it is relatively safe to go to (certain parts of) Libanon, then it normally is. Unforeseeable events can always happen. You can't blame the government for that, but neither can you blame the people involved. If you do that, you should blame all citizens of Florida for living in a Hurricane area, and all people in Los Angeles for livng in an earthquake one.

So these people should be rescued, no question about it. Another issue is whether those people should be billed for their rescue. Provided the bill would be applied humanitarian (i.e. people who really can't pay, don't have to pay) I don't have a very strong feeling about it. For the government it amounts to peanuts anyway, so it is mostly a symbolic law.
Reply #17 Top
I see both sides of this issue.

I've lived over seas and can say in every place I lived I had a contingency plan A and B. I knew what countries closest are allies and what countries weren't and I planned accordingly.

I think if you move to Beruit you need a contingency plan. And it shouldn't be, America will bail me out.

But in this case I don't know that it would do you any good. Israel is blocking the water, and the airport is useless. Unless you are James Bond I don't think most are gonna have what they need to leave on their own.

So at the end of the day this is what I come to. These people are AMERICANS. Rich, poor, black or white, poor choices or good ones, they are our countrymen. We should be in there getting them out full force no holds barred.

When I think of some of the ridiculous things we spend our money on....well saving American lives (While showing the world we protect our own) is at LEAST as worthy as that.

Maybe we should start a donation pool for these families.

Reply #18 Top
We need to just go get these folks, if they can pay after they are safely removed, let them pay. But if they've had to leave everything they own behind, including their bank accounts, then they are no better off than any other refugee from disaster, no matter how rich they might have been before it happened.


LW, they aren't making people "pay up" before agreeing to rescue them. I think that is one of the main misconceptions here I think. Just like when you get in a car accident, they don't ask for your MC/VISA before loading you into the ambulance but they sure will bill you later.

Hezbollah has been an active, known threat in that region for decades. I sympathize with the family who sent their 3 kids to visit granny and gramps in Lebanon but I don't expect to foot the bill to get them back. If I go to Hawaii for vacation, work, family visit, etc. and there's a mudslide, is the government going to pay to get me home? No. Should it? No.

This is a law passed by our Congress. As far as I know, when it comes to the law, ignorance of the law and "unfairness" of the law are not excuses. I personally think it's a fair law. We all take risks in life for whatever reason. Sometimes those risks have monetary circumstances.
Reply #19 Top
Here is part of an interview with a woman who was one of the three thousand Americans evacuated by the Marines.

"Everyone was pushing and shoving, women were crying, saying, 'Here's my passport, here's my children, take my children, just take them, take them,'" Esseily said. "It was absolutely horrendous."

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