Stem-Cells May Defeat the GOP » Forum Post by COL Gene

Charles C

You show your stupidity.

The stem cells that are proposed and that I mention in my Blog to be used are the remaining cells from in-vitro fertilization. These cells are not to be implanted and become a human being but will be destroyed at some point as medical waste. Please explain WHY the use of these left over cells from in-vitro that will be destroyed should not be used?

Your worse than my wife. You just love it when I prove you wrong don't you? Here, stick this in your pipe and smoke it you sorry excuse for a military soldier.

From CNN.com Bush threatens veto on stem cell research bill
Friday, May 20, 2005

The scientific community complains many of those stem cell lines are contaminated and could not be used for research. A study published in January in the journal Nature Medicine said all those lines are contaminated.

From a year ago, they complained about the stem cells being contaminated. So what exactly do you want to do with them now that the scientific community does not want them and want new ones? You ignorant fool.

Bush is entitled to his opinion but not to impose it on the reminder of us given the fact that both the Congress and majority of the American people want this bill to become law.

Hello, anyone out there? Ever wonder why the President has the power to VETO it? Because he is entitled to do so and most if not all of the things he does come from his own opinion. Who has ever heard of a President who believes one thing but votes for another? Oh yea, democrats.

I have a wife with cancer and a step-son with diabetes. The use of these cells could help relieve the suffering I see EVERY day in my family you flaming A*s. Look at what the major leader of the Senate who is also a Doctor said. As I said Bush as usual is out to lunch and it will be a GREAT day when that idiot returns to Texas!

Not offending your wife and kid, you are not the only one in the world with sick family members. This statement alone makes you a selfish person.

Besides, this whole stem cell science is not a miracle cure, it's not something taht will yield results in a month or 2. This type of research can take years and even decades before any real progress can be made. Either way, stem cell research is not illegal, it can be done. Bush just doesn't want taxes to be used for it, you know that thing that keeps making the deficit get bigger that you cry so much about, or is the fact that the deficit is shrinking giving you an excuse to complain about Bush not giving more federal funds? What a jack-ass.

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The Federal Government funds all sorts of Medical Research. Show me where the Supreme Court said Congress can not use tax dollars to fund Medical Research using Stem-cells.

The Bush proposal would grant people that have violated our laws citizenship. That is a form of amnesty and most do not agree with him on this issue.

Bush has NOT reduced the deficit. He is still running a $500 billion annual deficit, has added 3.5 Trillion to the National Debt and his most optimistic plan only reduced the annual deficit to half the past rate. He never stops adding to the cumulative debt nor has any plan to pay down the enormous debt he and Reagan have imposed of our country.

The limits imposed on stem-cell research is making =real progress impossible. Look at what the senate Majority Leader said today.

Bush has done absolutely NOTHING to make us less dependent on Oil and the Oil industry is anything but a free market and is screwing 100 % of 100% of the time.

Bush has backpedaled on so many environmental regulations it is hard to know where to start. Former sec Whitman was fired because she would not dismantle the existing regulations as fast as Bush wanted.

Since Bush took office the trade deficit had doubled.

The way Bush has manipulated the economy has benefited the wealthy and business and left the average American with nothing. In five years the Average weekly wage has not increase while corporate profits and executive compensation has gone through the roof

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The Federal Government funds all sorts of Medical Research. Show me where the Supreme Court said Congress can not use tax dollars to fund Medical Research using Stem-cells.

This is part of the problem, Col. Just because nobody's challenged it does not mean it is automatically within the government's Constitutional authority.

The Supreme Court has also upheld Bush's NSA wiretap program, COL, yet you and others still insist that it is illegal. I find it interesting that you accept the Supreme Court's action or non action as the final authority on what is right when they render a verdict you accept, yet you challenge that authority when they do not.

The Bush proposal would grant people that have violated our laws citizenship. That is a form of amnesty and most do not agree with him on this issue.

No, the Bush proposal would impose a stiff fine on people who have violated our laws, and start them on the ROAD to citizenship. HUGE difference there.

And it is here where you show your remarkable inconsistency, COL. On the one hand, you support the rights of detainees at Guantanamo Bay, who have TAKEN ARMS AGAINST THE UNITED STATES, and on the other you support the mass deportation, without due process, of 11 million illegal immigrants who came here to get a job. I honestly don't get how a roofer poses a bigger terror threat than a Hamas terrorist.

Bush has NOT reduced the deficit. He is still running a $500 billion annual deficit, has added 3.5 Trillion to the National Debt and his most optimistic plan only reduced the annual deficit to half the past rate. He never stops adding to the cumulative debt nor has any plan to pay down the enormous debt he and Reagan have imposed of our country.

Potato, Potahto, Col. If I have noticed anything about the economy, I hae noticed that the Democrats use one set of books, the Republicans another. The truth is, the only form of "deficit reduction" you and your DNC cronies will accept is massive tax increases that will cripple the middle class. The fact that you will then give proceeds from those massive increases back to the poor does NOT mitigate your theft in any way.

The limits imposed on stem-cell research is making =real progress impossible. Look at what the senate Majority Leader said today.

Really? There are no wealthy individuals willing to fund stem cell research? Dana and Christopher Reeve are both dead, and left a substantial estate. Why didn't they use that estate to start a stem cell research facility if they were so passionate about the matter? Things that make you go hmmmmm...

Bush has done absolutely NOTHING to make us less dependent on Oil and the Oil industry is anything but a free market and is screwing 100 % of 100% of the time.

That's not Bush's job, Col...that's OURS. There is a free market that gives us choices to use energy sources that make us less dependent on foreign oil, yet, remarkably, we all sit on our asses waiting for the government to solve our problems. Tell me, Col, how is your home powered for electricity? Wind or Solar? If you're on the power grid, you're nothing but another of the millions of hypocrites who are unwilling to put your money where your mouth is!

I never said the oil industry was a free market, Col, only that a free market allows us the power to make alternate purchasing decisions.

Bush has backpedaled on so many environmental regulations it is hard to know where to start. Former sec Whitman was fired because she would not dismantle the existing regulations as fast as Bush wanted.

Another instance of "it is so because I say it is so". No examples, talking points regurgitated from your DU cronies, and entirely without substance.

Since Bush took office the trade deficit had doubled.

Again, two sets of books

The way Bush has manipulated the economy has benefited the wealthy and business and left the average American with nothing. In five years the Average weekly wage has not increase while corporate profits and executive compensation has gone through the roof

I must be an "above average American", Col, because the economy hasn't "left me with nothing". Nor has it left anyone I know "with nothing. Since I live in one of the more impoverished areas of the country, I find your assertions impossible to believe, not just difficult, Col.

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Anyway, Col, I'll release you back to your liberal dreamworld. I just didn't want your remarks going unchallenged!

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little-whip

Better look at what the Senate majority leader and Doctor said-- Without a change the research will be hampered. Since the majority wants this bill I guess the majority want to use our tax dollars. The majority want an end to the Iraq war and want to STOP spending our tax dollars in Iraq. Here again Bush fails to do the will of the American People.

What a fool. As if the pharmaceutical companies taht stand to make the most money off of this (as LW stated) couldn't afford it. What a dope. Everything here is just plain stupidity.

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Anyway, Col, I'll release you back to your liberal dreamworld. I just didn't want your remarks going unchallenged!

It's useless, you couldn't get thru to him if you literally drilled a hole in his head. That how ever would be a bad idea, you would get a mouth full of old air from a spot where a brain was suppose to occupy but was somehow missing the day he was born. I wander if he was premature, at least we would know why.

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Island Dog

Join Date 06/2003

+1051

Average weekly wage has not increase while corporate profits and executive compensation has gone through the roof

This is where you use typical liberal talking points. You act like corporations making a profit is a bad thing. Bush does not control what companies make and pay people.

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The Federal Government funds all sorts of Medical Research. Show me where the Supreme Court said Congress can not use tax dollars to fund Medical Research using Stem-cells.

You have still not addressed how this is not allowed by the Constitution.

The Bush proposal would grant people that have violated our laws citizenship. That is a form of amnesty and most do not agree with him on this issue.

Not only is his plan unworkable but in the end people that have violated our laws would be granted amnesty.

Bush has NOT reduced the deficit. He is still running a $500 billion annual deficit, has added 3.5 Trillion to the National Debt and his most optimistic plan only reduced the annual deficit to half the past rate. He never stops adding to the cumulative debt nor has any plan to pay down the enormous debt he and Reagan have imposed of our country.

The deficit is real and is documented by the Treasury Dept. Bush has NOT reduced the deficit!

The limits imposed on stem-cell research is making =real progress impossible. Look at what the senate Majority Leader said today.

I think Sen. Frisk being a Doctor has a better understanding of the impact the restrictions are having on Stem-Cell research then Bush.

Bush has done absolutely NOTHING to make us less dependent on Oil and the Oil industry is anything but a free market and is screwing 100 % of 100% of the time.

The energy policy has a lot to do with how dependent we are on foreign oil. If we follow your logic we should do away with the President’s Office since nothing is part of his job.

Bush has backpedaled on so many environmental regulations it is hard to know where to start. Former sec Whitman was fired because she would not dismantle the existing regulations as fast as Bush wanted.

Since Bush took office the trade deficit had doubled.

That is not bookkeeping is just cold hard facts. China alone which Bush approved into the WTO amounted for $200 Billion last year.

The way Bush has manipulated the economy has benefited the wealthy and business and left the average American with nothing. In five years the Average weekly wage has not increase while corporate profits and executive compensation has gone through the roof.

The Average person is no better off and the wealthy are the ONLY group that has experienced an increase in their net worth since Bush became president.

Now back to the subject.

This Blog was about Stem Cells.

As I pointed out the congress that we elect to make our laws want to allow federal funding of Stem-cell research. They would not be supporting this unless the members of Congress felt this is what the majority want especially in an election year. Bush and the far right wants to impose their religious beliefs on this country. Since the in-vitro stem-cells that are excess would be destroyed if not used for medical research, with the agreement of the downers, you can not argue that will destroy human life because the excess stem-cells will NEVER be a human being.

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Island Dog

Join Date 06/2003

+1051

Blame Bush, Blame Bush, blame Bush for everything.

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IslandDog

Just for the issues he has screwed up of failed to solve.

Deficit
Lack of Border Security
The Iraq War
No Energy policy
No solution to the Funding issues of Social Security and Medicare
Trade imbalance
Improved Education (He was the Education President)
Protect the environment

To just list the BIG ones

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Island Dog

Join Date 06/2003

+1051

Col, we have addressed your standard cut and paste bs and proved you wrong on most. What you don't understand is that people might listen to you if you drop the "blame Bush" for everything rhetoric. According to you Bush controls everything in your daily life.

You can blame Bush all you want col, but democrats can't even beat him. Their solutions are even worse than anything Bush can come up with. I don't see Bush advertising a unified Texas/Mexico to win votes. Bush has spent more money on education, so you liberals should love that.

If you ever wonder why nobody buys your books, and why even liberals here avoid you. Just read your posts.

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IslandDog

This issue is BUSH. He is the one that is to VETO his first bill that 70% of Americans including 53% of Republicans want to become law. He is the one that is attempting to impose HIS religious beliefs on the country. HOW DO YOU TAKE BUSH OUT OF THIS ISSUE?

This issue may insure the Democrats take control in November. ANY member of Congress up for reelection that does not vote to OVERRIDE this Bush Veto will be in danger of being defeated and should be removed from office!

As Bush said, “ I am the decider” NO Mr. Bush the PEOPLE are the decider. You think this is a dictatorship and Mr. Bush YOU ARE WRONG!

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Island Dog

Join Date 06/2003

+1051

He is the one that is attempting to impose HIS religious beliefs on the country.

And we have asked you to prove it's based on his religious beliefs. You have not. So once again you are basing your statements on your emotions and hatred of Bush, not facts. You know, the usual.

As Bush said, “ I am the decider” NO Mr. Bush the PEOPLE are the decider. You think this is a dictatorship and Mr. Bush YOU ARE WRONG!

Oh here we go again with you thinking Bush is a dictator. How ridiculous you are. This is why you don't sell books.

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IslandDog

My belief is that since the Stem-cells that remain from in-vitro will be destroyed, WHY NOT use them to HELP the living. They will not EVER become a human being thus I believe their use can not be as Bush and some others on the far right claim to be destroying life. The life will NEVER exist so HOW can the use of those cells are destroying Life. If the cells are not used they will remain frozen until they are destroyed.

The point is however that Bush is attempting to impose what he believes on everyone. That is not his right and he is acting like an arrogant dictator. Because he believes it is wrong he is attempting to impose that same belief on everyone!

Many people have loved ones that could benefit from this research. Today some of the most eminent researchers at U of P stated that the current policy, imposed by Bush, is hampering research into cures for many diseases. Why would any rational person deny the possible help for the living to preserve an embryo that is frozen and will later become medical waste? It DOES NOT MAKE SENSE. If these embryos were to later become a human being you might have a rational argument. THAT IS NOT THE CASE!

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Island Dog

Join Date 06/2003

+1051

My belief is that since the Stem-cells that remain from in-vitro will be destroyed, WHY NOT use them to HELP the living.

It's your belief col, not everyone else's. As usual you imply a reason without fact or proof. Just "blame Bush" is the sole base for your posts.

The point is however that Bush is attempting to impose what he believes on everyone. That is not his right and he is acting like an arrogant dictator. Because he believes it is wrong he is attempting to impose that same belief on everyone!

I have to say that this is just plain stupid. How is Bush acting like a dictator? Because you don't agree with him? The only person arrogant is you who claim to know what every person in America wants.

Democrats believe we should be fighting terrorism, and that we should cut and run in Iraq. I guess they are dictators too because some dont' agree with them.

Many people have loved ones that could benefit from this research. Today some of the most eminent researchers at U of P stated that the current policy, imposed by Bush, is hampering research into cures for many diseases. Why would any rational person deny the possible help for the living to preserve an embryo that is frozen and will later become medical waste? It DOES NOT MAKE SENSE. If these embryos were to later become a human being you might have a rational argument. THAT IS NOT THE CASE!

How many times DOES THIS NEED TO BE TOLD TO YOU? Bush isn't stopping the research. I can also show you "researchers" that say these cells are useless and it's a waste of funding.

You need to seek professional help for your hatred of Bush.

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IslandDog

I happen to have first hand knowledge that any excess cells from in-vitro remain frozen for a period of time and at some point destroyed. YOU ARE WRONG AGAIN! I worked at a teaching hospital for 10 years and have a relative that underwent in-vitro.

When Bush pushed HIS religious beliefs on everyone else he is both arrogant and a dictator. It is time for Congress to let Bush know who under our system makes the LAWS. IT is NOT the Executive Branch but Congress.

This Blog is about Stem-cells not terrorism or anything else.

The most informed researchers as well as the Majority Leader of the Senate who is a Doctor have stated the current restrictions are significantly limiting the research and to move forward with the research REQUIRES a change in policy like the law Congress supports. WRONG AGAIN!!!!!!!!

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Island Dog

Join Date 06/2003

+1051

I happen to have first hand knowledge that any excess cells from in-vitro remain frozen for a period of time and at some point destroyed. YOU ARE WRONG AGAIN! I worked at a teaching hospital for 10 years and have a relative that underwent in-vitro.

Oh so now you are a medical expert? I see you totally ignored what I said. What a loon.

When Bush pushed HIS religious beliefs on everyone else he is both arrogant and a dictator. It is time for Congress to let Bush know who under our system makes the LAWS. IT is NOT the Executive Branch but Congress.

Are you seriously losing it? Only a looney leftist would compare Bush to a dictator. Get help for your obsession.

This Blog is about Stem-cells not terrorism or anything else.

Nice way to avoid the question col. I see you have no problem turning other blogs into blame Bush topics.

The most informed researchers as well as the Majority Leader of the Senate who is a Doctor have stated the current restrictions are significantly limiting the research and to move forward with the research REQUIRES a change in policy like the law Congress supports. WRONG AGAIN!!!!!!!!

BUSH IS NOT STOPPING THE RESEARCH. DO YOU UNDERSTAND THIS BASIC FACT?

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Island Dog

Join Date 06/2003

+1051

Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist (R.-Tenn.) called the debate over stem-cell research “the first major moral and ethical challenge to biomedical research in the 21st century.” At a press conference kicking off this week’s congressional debate, he admonished everyone, "In discussing this science, we must remember not to check our ethics at the door." Even so, he endorsed H.R. 810, the Stem Cell Research Enhancement Act, which would allow the use of taxpayer funds to pay for unethical embryonic stem-cell research.

With all the hype and political posturing, it is sometimes difficult to remember that the deliberations should be a fact-finding mission, not a stampede of celebrity and congressional cockamamie; that the debate is, at heart, a discussion of science, not myths.

One of the most puzzling -- and cruel -- of modern-day myths is the mantra about the wonders of embryonic stem-cell treatments. Sen. Arlen Specter (R.-Pa.) predicted that research on embryonic stem cells (ESCR) would result in “a veritable fountain of youth.” [1] Because of embryonic stem-cell treatments, a research organization for the aged claimed, the future will be a “world without debilitating costly diseases.” [2]

The myths surrounding embryonic stem-cell research are puzzling because, bluntly, there are no human trials underway on embryonic stem cells; nor have any animal trials shown enough potential to warrant initiating human trials. Further, putting aside the moral concerns, research on embryonic stem cells is not illegal; it is a matter of funding -- who will pay for ESCR? Ironically, commercial enterprises are unwilling to invest in the research since the outcomes are so scientifically questionable and, consequently, unprofitable financially. The Bush administration has been unwilling to approve taxpayer funding because of the ethical concerns about the research. In other words, there is too much risk of ESCR becoming a bust on every front -- scientific, financial, moral and ethical.

In fact, the hype about the potential of embryonic stem-cell treatment is largely celebrity-driven; the scientists are notably silent in public and cautious in private.

One of the leading advocates of ESCR claims to have “no idea” when such therapies will be ready. [3] A Harvard professor admitted that “no studies have demonstrated the controlled generation of a uniform cell type” such as is necessary for ESCR to reach its potential. [4]

The myths are cruel because they hold out false hope for miraculous cures from embryonic stem-cell treatments when not a single disease has been treated successfully thus far. Further, there is a hidden danger in the ESCR: Some laboratory studies reveal a tendency for the embryonic stem cells to form dangerous tumors. A University of Pennsylvania bioethicist, Glenn McGee, called the potential of ESCR a “Pandora’s box.” [5]

In contrast, 72 different diseases and/or conditions have been successfully treated via adult stem cells, and the improvements in patient conditions have been documented by peer-reviewed scientific publications. Also, significant results have been produced in animal research using adult and cord-blood stem cells applied to spinal-cord injuries, diabetes and Parkinson’s disease.

Why then is there such a push in Congress to pass legislation to promote embryonic stem-cell research? Why has there been such hype for creating human embryos to use for “therapeutic research”?

In part, the push for research cloning is a control issue: Postmodernism demands human mastery of all outcomes -- that nothing be left to chance or to a “higher power.” Current ideology requires the “scientific” creation of stem cells regardless of the ethical consequences or human risks involved. For the activists hyping ESCR, nothing -- neither the health and well-being of the egg donors nor the care and handling of the created human embryos -- can stand in the way of so-called progress toward total human control over reproduction.

Nevertheless, the most promising future for regenerative medicine lies with research that focuses on adult and cord-blood stem cells. There, too, lies the ethical high road.

This week, Congress will vote on whether embryonic stem-cell research crosses a moral line to violate the ethical principles about life. [6] The specific bill, H.R. 810, would allow the use of taxpayer funds to pay for embryonic stem-cell research despite President Bush’s previous limitation of research to those cells obtained before August 2001. The President has announced that he will veto the bill if it passes Congress. The American public -- proving once again that it is savvier than those in the spotlights and on the screens -- has indicated its opposition (48%) to federally funded stem-cell research that destroys embryos and its support of adult stem-cell research (57%). [7]

Sen. Specter warned that those who oppose ESCR research will “look foolish, look absolutely ridiculous” in retrospect. A saner voice, Sen. Sam Brownback (R-Kansas), noted that it is unnecessary to “treat humans as raw material.”

Those folks chasing ESCR have nothing but empty promises and ever-illusive hopes; those focusing on adult and cord stem cells have solid scientific results and treatments that have produced measurable benefits on 72 diseases.

ESCR, for all its hype, is a mirage of myths -- the triumph of activism over science.

http://www.humaneventsonline.com/article.php?id=16092

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He's lost it, this article is useless now cause he continues to repeat even when you've proved him wrong. What a waste.

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Daiwa

Join Date 07/2001

+351

Since Bush took office the trade deficit had doubled.

Well, there you have it. No wonder he's going to veto it.

It's also perfectly OK to be for stem-cell research and against federal funding of it. Let those who believe it will be the cure for everything put up the money (and make a return on their investment if it pans out). We've got foundations bankrolling private space travel, for crying out loud.

LW -

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When the Majority of Congress and the majority of Americans including 53% of Republicans are going one way and Bush is going the other Bush is WRONG. I will trust the researcher’s assessment as to what the current restrictions are doing to the research efforts over anyone on this Blog Site or Bush! This is a looser for Bush and any idiot Republicans that support Bush on this one.

Stem-cell issue casts light on frozen embryos
By Jeffrey Young

Supporters of increased research into embryonic stem cells cite the existence of 400,000 frozen embryos in clinics — many of which may ultimately be discarded as a reason for permitting more study of possible medical uses for stem cells.

Senate's Leader Veers From Bush Over Stem Cells

Article Tools Sponsored By
By SHERYL GAY STOLBERG
Published: July 29, 2005

WASHINGTON, July 28 - In a break with President Bush, the Senate Republican leader, Bill Frist, has decided to support a bill to expand federal financing for embryonic stem cell research, a move that could push it closer to passage and force a confrontation with the White House, which is threatening to veto the measure.
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Carol T. Powers for The New York Times

Senator Bill Frist on Capitol Hill Friday.
Related
Senator Bill Frist on Embryonic Stem Cell Research (July 29, 2005)
Readers
Forum: Bioethics

Forum: The 109th Congress

Mr. Frist, a heart-lung transplant surgeon who said last month that he did not back expanding financing "at this juncture," is expected to announce his decision Friday morning in a lengthy Senate speech. In it, he says that while he has reservations about altering Mr. Bush's four-year-old policy, which placed strict limits on taxpayer financing for the work, he supports the bill nonetheless.

"While human embryonic stem cell research is still at a very early stage, the limitations put in place in 2001 will, over time, slow our ability to bring potential new treatments for certain diseases," Mr. Frist says, according to a text of the speech provided by his office Thursday evening. "Therefore, I believe the president's policy should be modified.

General Public Favors Stem Cell Research

By The Associated Press
The Associated Press
Wednesday, July 19, 2006; 3:59 AM

-- A majority of Americans support research involving stem cells from human embryos, including providing federal funding for such research. Stem cell research gets less support from Republicans than from independents and Democrats, polling suggests.

Recent Gallup polling found that a majority of Americans say such research is morally acceptable and support federal funding for it.

The polls found Republicans more conflicted, with just about half calling embryonic stem cell research morally acceptable and only four in 10 favoring federal funding of such research.

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Why do you guys waste your time here?

Bush is not restricting the research, he is simply refusing injection of federal funds. That is all. All those "in-vitro" waste embryos can be used, just not by federally funded programs.

Veto stats for the last 9 presidencies:

Kennedy - 21
Johnson - 30
Nixon - 43
Ford - 66
Carter - 31
Reagan - 78
G.H.W. Bush - 44
Clinton - 37
G.W. Bush - 1 (7/19/06 - the veto in question)

So begins and ends my comments on this blog.

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Daiwa

Join Date 07/2001

+351

When the Majority of Congress and the majority of Americans including 53% of Republicans are going one way and Bush is going the other Bush is WRONG.

This is a breathtakingly dumb comment. One word - Gallileo.

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Gee

Yes look at the ONLY thing Bush vetoed-- Something that could help end the SUFFERING of many sick people. He does not veto give away programs called PORK. He does not veto big tax cuts to oil companies that are robbing us blind. He does not veto budgets that are not balanced.

It is not the number of vetoes it is what he does NOT veto that he should and what he did veto that would help people with serious diseases. He is the WORST EXCUSE for a President in our 230 year history!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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my dad is against federally funded research in this area....and he is a democrat (he even takes nearly all of Michael Moore at face value as truth).....

hmmm....

Chris

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