Why SD simply must reply to this scandal

Things will eventually be fixed hopefully

They are working their asses off on patches updates and the new expansion, and all you can do is complain and whine and expect them to cater to your responce simply because you speak for every single GC2 customer? That's pretty arrogant of you. I for one think Stardock is doing a fantastic job. Things will be fixed eventually I'm sure. But playing the "Customer is always right whaaaa i want a free meal" bs is not going to get you anywhere ... demanding explanations, replies and so on.

dude , part of the stardock mission statement was to make almost everything transparent to players, so we could get a feel for the game. What star dagger is ...er ranting about is exactly he sort of thing that needs to be transparent. A scoring method is a load of rubbish unless it is easily seen how it was accomplished. This knowledge would empower players to get higher scores because they will finally know what is worth doing and where the points are. ya reading me?

Chill it boyo. And use a bigger font fer chrissake. later.

did you just edit commander futility?? boy that was some change of tune...did star dagger get you in a headlock or sommat? haha

But if the scoring mechanism was transparent, there would just be a formula you could exploit. Read what you wrote in your first post, Frookie - we would know what was worth doing? Every planet conquered begets you 100 points, every planet lost costs 100 points, overall military value times the number of ships you had, etc.? That just makes the game a Frogger kind of thing - we know exactly what to do to get into the high score section, and the only competition is between the extremely talented, if abiet uncreative, players who are good at pressing buttons (so to speak).

I believe Brad Wardell posted a thread about this kind of issue under the handle Frogboy (it was a general thing about game mechanical transparency and the four types of gamers, but it was still pretty interesting). Search around in the Developer Journals for it - it explains a lot about deciidng how much of the game engine they should reveal.

My concern is with Meta scoring

With every game I play my total score goes down lately. I lost 70,000 points posting a single 40,000 military. I don't know if there is any point playing the meta anymore. It would be nice to have some idea what was happening.

After all I'm dedicating hours of my spare time to rid the universe of the Yor and score a few more points for my empire. A little information is the least the civilians at stardock could do to aid my cause.

I imagine it has something to do with all my earlier low scores. Which were huge scores until they were arbitrarily reset by Stardock when they decided to change the scoring system. I would not mind having the option to delete those scores if it's destroying my current game enjoyment. But I'm just guessing.

The thing that gets me is the use of the word "scandal."

Unfortunately, these days few people respond unless you yell, swear or use strong statements like 'scandal'. Definitely a sign of the times.

Cheers,
Superconductor

I'm one of those who gave up on Metaverse and moved on.

I found this in the the Gal civ 1 archives. Is it the same as the original is the question.


#29 by Citizen IceMole - 7/25/2003 3:38:15 AM

This should now be 100% accurate in describing metaverse overall score calculation.

For the score as shown on the player page:
1. Separate the scores into blocks of 30 days, counting back from the most recent submission.
2. Within each block take the sum of the scores, divide by the square root of the number of games in the block and round the results to the nearest whole number.
3. Apply the appropriate degradation to each block score. (10% per month)
4. Add the final block scores.

For the score as shown on the metaverse list:
1. Same as above.
2. Same except always round down.
3. Apply the appropriate degradation (5% per month here) to each block score and round down again.
4. Add the final block scores.


As an example, here is Staffa's player page score calculation at 35 submissions:

2 Month Block (61-90 Days Old) 10 Games; 80% Value:
5/08 672
5/09 1562
5/10 1639
5/11 1503
5/13 1662
5/13 1788
5/14 2982
5/16 4312
5/20 5565
5/21 4937
Number of Scores in Block: 10
Block Total: 26622

26622 / 10(sqrt) = 8418.6 --> Round to 8419
Block Score (pre-degradation): 8419

8419 * .8 = 6735.2
Final Block Score: 6735.2


1 Month Block (31-60 Days Old) 18 Games; 90% Value:
5/23 6178
5/24 5673
5/25 6213
5/28 6487
5/28 3465
5/31 7097
5/31 3668
6/02 3985
6/02 4381
6/03 8850
6/04 6890
6/06 16150
6/07 11080
6/08 3678
6/10 11400
6/11 17380
6/12 13380
6/14 21870
Block Total: 157825

157825 / 18(sqrt) = 37199.7 --> Round to 37200
Block Score (pre-degradation): 37200

37200 * .9 = 33480
Final Block Score: 33480


0 Month Block (0-30 Days Old) 7 Games; 100% Value:
6/25 13530
6/30 21850
7/02 22200
7/03 13030
7/04 14850
7/15 19070
7/22 13050
Block Total: 117580

117580 / 7(sqrt) = 44441.06 --> Round to 44441
Block Score (pre-degradation): 44441

42674 * 1 = 44441
Final Block Score: 44441

Sum of the Final Block Scores: 6735.2 + 33480 + 44441 = 84656.2

If you want to talk to Stardock, head onto the IRC and contact them. They are all on there most of the time.

honestly, thats why ive stopped playing the game recently, and by recently i mean the past few months. im part of the colonial fleet, and all our scores were going backwards etc... and i just got frustrated, and haven't played since (of course ive gotten readdicted to a few games, which is part of the problem too) but still i trust stardock, and im sure they'll figure something out, or leave it, maybe they are happy with it, i dont know.

I fully agree with Star Dagger.

I cared less and less about Metaverse scoring because the older scores never got fully recalculated. Look for the "Vigilante" character currently ranked at #2 to see an example: Link.

Additionally some MV total scores seem weird when looking at the individual games. I'd like to know which formula they're supposed to obey.

There are two issues here: The scoring of an individual game, and the calculation of the metaverse "average." I have found the former to be somwhat of a puzzle, but nothing to discourage or take away from the fun of playing the game. The latter, however, I have found frustrating, and I think that is the burden of the "complaint" in this thread. I was rather surprised, for instance, to get a 20,000+ score on one game (certainly not my best, but not my worst, either), and see it drop my MV score by 30,000 and lose me about 50 places in the overall ranking.

I don't know, maybe I'm naive, but why does it have to be so complex and arcane(degrading old scores, dividing by square roots, etc., etc.) Why not just *add the scores* for a simple total? That way, even if you played a game and lost, you could still add it and get at least *some* benefit and help your empire. That way you wouldn't have to think twice every time you are asked "Do you want to submit your score to the Metaverse?" And that way, everyone would be encouraged to play the game often, even a quick game on a small map (which I would not *think* of doing the way it is now), and to try out higher levels of difficulty. Anything that would encourage us to play and submit more games would seem to me to be the way to go.

What a badly titled thread. It really sounds so juvenile and arrogant, like a sad cry for attention. Sure it's flawed, but it's certainly not a scandal. It has already been addressed in other threads. If you don't like it, don't use it. It certainly doesn't affect my enjoyment of the game.

Well the old formula does not work. At least with my weak math skills.

BladeVenom You say the problem has been addressed in other threads. I ask, By whom? I have seen many posts over the last few months, and read them all, pertaining to the metaverse problem and have never seen even an acknowledgement from the devs that they have read our posts. They are great at crushing bugs created by their new additions, but the metaverse seems to have ZERO priority. I agree with Shamgar that it should just be a simple total of all games played. TBAY

did you just edit commander futility?? boy that was some change of tune...did star dagger get you in a headlock or sommat? haha

I'm not the retard who spent an entire ten minuts writing one paragraph. After like 2-3 minutes I decided edit a chunk out. But yeah if you want a flame-war I'm all for Stardock. They are working their behinds off.

I do believe in customer satisfaction myself, but whining about something and having 100's of people expecting answers is not going to get YOU or Stardock anywhere.

I'm pretty sure they are trying their best and with the recent server issue where all stardock sites went offline ; while they're trying to fix their services and continue on their projects they can only do so much.

So perhaps instead of bitching and throwing pot-shot-insults that get you no-where how about we see some of your awesome game-making skills huh?

but still i trust stardock, and im sure they'll figure something out,

My feelings exactly. Though as our dear friend who's only reason for existance is to stirr-the-pot and thinks that me editing a post to avoid a conflicting discussion thinks that

1>Customer is always right
2> Customer gets what they want instantly
3>Everything is handed to us

I agree the Customer should see results but expecting them instantly like some people isn't the answer.

I'm totally cool with the element called "patience"

CommanderFutility I agree with you, stardock does work their butts off solving problems with the game. The problem I see is that they keep starting new projects and continually have to work the bugs out of those, before they have finished solving existing problems. There are many problems posted from when the game was first released that have not been addressed yet. They are continually creating more work for themselves. As I have learned from life, You usually have to take one step back to take two steps forward. TBAY

Not all bugs are expected, or supposed to happen. Though I have to say that Stardock still cares, and that everything I've seen them do they've always kept to what they've said they'd do.

I'd like to see the metaverse fixed too, but I havn't gone arround parading arround with ultimatums playing "unite the customers into whinging power mark V". Part of this thread sounds like a demand and the other part sounds like a desperate request to help keep this game community alive.

It's the demand side of things that frusterates me. I mean the title of this thread "Why SD simply must reply to this scandal" since when did a blooper or a bug resulting in the team developing/changing something = a scandal?

Yeah anyhows I'm just going to move-allong and having said that I like Stardock, it's games and it's hard-working attitude; will go in peace and laugh when everything is fine. I'm still going to have fun despite some of the troubles

I lost a 1/4 of my entire score by submitting 1 game. Is that a problem?

Does Stardock think that it is a problem?

Have they ever acknowledge a problem?

I have absolutely no understanding as to why it happened, is that a problem?

My earlier high scores were arbitrarily lowered by Stardock, is that a problem?

I think waisting the hours it took to put up 33 games may have been my real problem. I thought the game was going to put me into 3rd or 4th and it knocked me right off the top page. So I'm a little bitter.

I believe that even after your score going down Stardock can probably fix it all; hopefully sooner than later but being bitter isn't going to get results.

Yes but it might not be a problem. It might be the way it works. I just don't know. Should I start a new Character? Should I carry on submitting games to what could be a irreparably flawed character? Does anyone know?

Errrrrrr

Still no ACKNOWLEDGEMENT from SD, thats half my issue, that they dont expain, defend or even acknowledge that this is an issue, bizarre.

Anyone is welcome to look at all of my posts on the boards here, i have nothing but admiration for the work they put in, but as explained above id like to see some feedback.

It seems that i was right that im not the only one that this bothers, when a percentage of the top 20 post in a thread i only made a few hours ago its a PROBLEM.

Yours in Scandalous Plasma,
Star Dagger

BUMPing and posting until we get answers

SD

Main Entry: 1scan·dal
Pronunciation: 'skan-d&l
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Late Latin scandalum stumbling block, offense, from Greek skandalon trap, stumbling block, offense; akin to Latin scandere to climb
1 a : discredit brought upon religion by unseemly conduct in a religious person b : conduct that causes or encourages a lapse of faith or of religious obedience in another
2 : loss of or damage to reputation caused by actual or apparent violation of morality or propriety : DISGRACE
3 a : a circumstance or action that offends propriety or established moral conceptions or disgraces those associated with it b : a person whose conduct offends propriety or morality
4 : malicious or defamatory gossip
5 : indignation, chagrin, or bewilderment brought about by a flagrant violation of morality, propriety, or religious opinion
synonym see OFFENSE

I use the words i do with full cognition of their import, effect and meaning.

Yours in Literary Plasma,
Star Dagger