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Island Dog
Island Dog
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What is the liberal stance on immigration?

May 17, 2006 8:36:07 AM from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
As with most things liberal you just can't figure out what their real stance is on immigration.

We know democrats want illegal aliens here to secure their voting base. I mean if we deported all illegal immigrants and felons, the democrat base would drop by 50%. We also know liberals supported the "day without an immigrant" which as all liberal protests go, it backfired on them. We can never get a coherent policy from the DNC about anything, so where do they stand?
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Island Dog
Jewbu
Join Date 11/2004
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Reply #1 May 17, 2006 2:45:10 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
Hello Island Dog,

Immigration is an issue for all of us, is it not? What's interesting to me is that the conservatives (i.e., ranchers and farmers) in my area (New Mexico) are not at all worried about illegal immigrants, they use them at every opportunity to increase their profit margins. On this isssue, I'm not sure, therefore, what is "liberal" and what is "conservative." Its like when I worked for the Department of social Services in South Carolina, the farmers there (tobacco, cotton, and soybean) loved the food stamp program and the old AFDC program as it, in effect, subsidized their labor force, lessening their costs of doing business and increasing their profits. Of course, in public they hated the "welfare." But I can tell you from experience these guys delivered their laborers to our office every month.

My particular liberal bent is this: we should have an open border with free entrance and exit. Of course, people should be screened, just as they are at any border checkpoint. No terrorists welcome, no criminals welcome. But when someone wants to come here to work or go to school, great. Such people and endevours contribute to our economy. As far as the health care system and educational systems go, these employees pay taxes and could easily be assessed some of the health care costs just we are. Illegals already attend our schools and consume other services. If they were here more easily as guests, perhaps this drain could be mitigated.

Be well.
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Island Dog
Island Dog
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Reply #2 May 17, 2006 7:46:37 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
Such people and endevours contribute to our economy.


That is being questioned. I am trying to find the report that shows illegal immigrants take more away from the system than they put in.
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Island Dog
Jewbu
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Reply #3 May 17, 2006 11:19:16 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
That is being questioned. I am trying to find the report that shows illegal immigrants take more away from the system than they put in.


Of course its being questioned. But then I'd be willing to wager most legal citizens working at minimum wage jobs take more from the system that they ever put in, as well. Still, the economy needs minimum wagers, after all who else will work at Mickey D's and Wal-Mart?

Think outside the box, my friend.

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Dr Guy
Join Date 09/2004
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Reply #4 May 18, 2006 6:06:59 AM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
Still, the economy needs minimum wagers, after all who else will work at Mickey D's and Wal-Mart?


You have not checked the starting rate at either lately. Or you would know that they are not hte minimum wagers. Field hands and day laborers are where minimum wage is most prevalent. And indeed, you could call that a training wage as the practicers thereof are learning the skills to get out of minimum wage jobs. You did not earn 100k right out of Highschool. Neither did I. But I dont earn minimum wage now, and I doubt you do either.
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Reply #5 May 18, 2006 7:23:13 AM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
Walmart starts out more than minimum wage....at around the 7 dollar per hour range....on average. I think the People Greeters and maybe the cart pushers make somewhere in the 6 dollar range...but those two jobs are directed more towards retired older folks or kids still in High School.

I know that the guys (and girls) unloading the trucks make 7 bucks or more....the ppl on the floors make even more than that. The ppl in the fresh departments (meat, deli, bakery, produce, and dairy) make EVEN more than that.

Not sure how much cashiers make....but really, if a person goes into Walmart, and they stick to the lowest paying job, and never go anywhere else, or up....that is really not Walmart's fault, it is their own for thier lack of desire to move on and up.

But to say Walmart is a bunch of minimum wage jobs....lol....whatever. Just keep talking about things you obviously don't have much of a clue about.
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Island Dog
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Reply #6 May 18, 2006 8:10:05 AM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
But then I'd be willing to wager most legal citizens working at minimum wage jobs take more from the system that they ever put in, as well.


It is possible. However, those are legal citizens. The topic here is illegal immigrants that do not belong here.
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drmiler
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Reply #7 May 18, 2006 8:26:58 AM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
Of course its being questioned. But then I'd be willing to wager most legal citizens working at minimum wage jobs take more from the system that they ever put in, as well. Still, the economy needs minimum wagers, after all who else will work at Mickey D's and Wal-Mart?

Think outside the box, my friend.


I don't know where you live, but around here Mickey D's start their employees at about $7.25 an hour. And that is a far cry from minium wage. Especially since US minium wage is $5.15 an hour.

Sometimes you need to think "inside" the box.
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Reply #8 May 18, 2006 8:55:51 AM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
it's easy to figure out the lefts stance on immigration, look at the stance of MOST AMERICAN, then take a TOTALLY oppisite direction.
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Jewbu
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Reply #9 May 18, 2006 11:54:21 AM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
I don't know where you live, but around here Mickey D's start their employees at about $7.25 an hour. And that is a far cry from minium wage. Especially since US minium wage is $5.15 an hour.

Sometimes you need to think "inside" the box.


Please, don't be so incredibly stupid. Do you really think that the taxes on the 7 or 8 dollars is going to come anywhere close to the costs associated to that earner? Get real.
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Jewbu
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Reply #10 May 18, 2006 11:56:08 AM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
You have not checked the starting rate at either lately. Or you would know that they are not hte minimum wagers


Misses the point. I really don't care what the minimum wage is, the point is that low end wage earners consume more than they pay for, the argument often used against illegals.
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Jewbu
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Reply #11 May 18, 2006 11:56:22 AM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
You have not checked the starting rate at either lately. Or you would know that they are not hte minimum wagers


Misses the point. I really don't care what the minimum wage is, the point is that low end wage earners consume more than they pay for, the argument often used against illegals.
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Reply #12 May 18, 2006 11:59:43 AM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
But to say Walmart is a bunch of minimum wage jobs....lol....whatever. Just keep talking about things you obviously don't have much of a clue about.


What is your problem? Wal-Mart is being sued up one side and down the other ragardling its labor relations. Clue? Oh, let's see, they paying a bit above minimum wage, but not enough to have employees get above the poverty lines so the sate then pays food stamps to its employees. Geezzz, aren't they just God's gift to America!
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Jewbu
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Reply #13 May 18, 2006 12:03:49 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
it's easy to figure out the lefts stance on immigration, look at the stance of MOST AMERICAN, then take a TOTALLY oppisite direction.


MM this is beneath you. Frankly, I believe, though I do not have polling data to prove it, illegal immigration is a non-issue with most folks, (or was) until the flames of fear were fanned by the right to take our eye off the real issues like a budget so far out there the bough will be breaking anytime now and a war which is consumming our resources at an alarming rate.

Be well.
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drmiler
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Reply #14 May 18, 2006 12:04:41 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
You have not checked the starting rate at either lately. Or you would know that they are not hte minimum wagers


Misses the point. I really don't care what the minimum wage is, the point is that low end wage earners consume more than they pay for, the argument often used against illegals.


Look, "you're" the one that made the point originally....Let me refresh your memory:

Of course its being questioned. But then I'd be willing to wager most legal citizens working at minimum wage jobs take more from the system that they ever put in, as well. Still, the economy needs minimum wagers, after all who else will work at Mickey D's and Wal-Mart?


Like most lefties, you don't like being called on something you wrote. And as far as "me" being incredibly stupid don't look in the mirror, stupid.
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Jewbu
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Reply #15 May 18, 2006 12:05:04 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
LW, I'll reply to you later.
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drmiler
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Reply #16 May 18, 2006 12:09:15 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
MM this is beneath you. Frankly, I believe, though I do not have polling data to prove it, illegal immigration is a non-issue with most folks,


And you're VERY wrong here too. It has "ALWAYS" been a serious issue for those that live/lived in the border states. I lived in southern CA for 20 it was a major issue when I moved there and it's "still" a major issue. That would include CA, AZ, NM and TX.
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Dr Guy
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Reply #17 May 18, 2006 12:16:15 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
Misses the point. I really don't care what the minimum wage is, the point is that low end wage earners consume more than they pay for, the argument often used against illegals.


You missed the point. First, if it were a single wage earner supporting an entire family, you would be correct. However that is so often not the case. And 2 people (husband and wife) earning even the minimum wage are not in poverty. Most of the starting wage jobs are held by people entering the work force, who have no skills. So they need to learn skills and also learn how to earn a living. You cannot start a no skill person out at $50k a year, no matter how noble your intentions.

You completely ignored the part about entering the work force and working your way up. To arbitrarily set a higher starting wage, when market forces nor skills do not warrant it only accomplishes 2 things. First, it causes inflation. Second it eliminates jobs due to lack of available funds to pay the inflated wage, and due to automation.

This is not a theory. It is a fact, as I worked for a major retailer for 12 years during the 80s when the minimum wage was getting bumped almost annually. And we cut staff to pay for it, as that was my job.
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Reply #18 May 18, 2006 8:12:35 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
Oh...and the ones that are starving mothers? Well, they really don't starve, do they, they can get food stamps and section 8 and medicaid and head start and free day care and WIC and LIHEAP grants and PELL grants and and and...the list goes on.


But what about HDTVs, PS3s, iPods, etc.? Their bodies might not be starving, but their ids are!
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messybuu
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Reply #19 May 18, 2006 8:12:37 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
Oops.
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