Bush deploys troops to borders, how soon for complaints?

from JoeUser Forums
After reading tons of screaming rants that Bush isn't doing enough to secure our borders, and now seeing news that says that Bush will deploy National Guard troops to help secure the borders (an action which I'm very curious to see supporting justification for, since the Commander-in-Chief's ability to deploy Guard troops normally requires certain conditions to provide justification for), I'm waiting for the other shoe to drop and wondering just how long it will be before we start seeing complaints from all sides about this move.

I expect there will be others like me that question the justification for this move, but I also expect we'll see troll bots like a certain Clueless Old Liberal saying it's too little and too late.

Perhaps it is too little, and it certainly is late, but even with the questions I have on just how the deployment of Guard troops can be justified for this national security requirement (ooops, I just said that out loud, didn't I? and won't that be the justification for why these troops can be deployed for this task, "national security requirement!!!!"), I still believe something must be done here. Our borders are far too porous -- especially our southern borders. People routinely cross the border through a series of holes that are more frequent than even the largest block of swiss cheese that could ever be imagined.

Ultimately, I fault the Congress for not dealing with this problem head-on. They fund the agencies that are involved, and they set the priorities in the budgeting process. They should be increasing the number of border agents, and allocating funds to increase the security at our borders, at our ports, and via any other methods that could be used to gain entry into this country.
politics
5,558 views 15 replies
Reply #1 from JoeUser Forums Top
This space reserved for complaints from the peanut gallery (complaints from all sides in the argument).
Reply #2 from JoeUser Forums Top
It is at least a step in the right direction.  Too late?  No, but as you say it is late.  Too Little?  Not if done effectively.  It is long over due, and while I would prefer the Border Patrol to be beefed up to do its job, at least the cart is again before the horse.
Siege of Centauri
Reply #3 from JoeUser Forums Top
One can only hope the guard is smart enough to film any confrontations, and maybe just maybe one of the illegals will take a shot at the guard, then we will see if everyone is still hot on illegal aliens 'RIGHTS"
Reply #4 from JoeUser Forums Top
I placed this response on LW's posting, but I think this would be my complaints:

While this maybe a good very short term fix, but it is not a good long term fix.

The average National Guard drill is filled with training, training, and more training. From the moment that a properly trained part time soldier arrives on a drill weekend or annual training, until they leave there is little time left over. This soldier must be proficient in the same tasks as a full time active soldier, riot control, air port security, fire control, disaster relief, a million federal mandated tasks, and the ever looming State directed training distracters.

The day of the monthly unit BBQ is long gone. Most units have a hard time scheduling one once a year for the families, most often after hours.

If you order soldiers to spend their presently allotted training time to patrol the boarder, you will have degradation in job skills. A modern National Guard soldier that spends four to ten months (or more) to learn his skill will not remember those skills, if not continually trained on much of the high tech equipment employed today.

If the soldier is ordered constantly to addition duty, or more training days allotted three problems will arise. As an employer of one of these soldiers how would you feel is you where constantly loosing your best employee? While many people here on JU would do their best to accommodate them, their are even more that will not react that way and employment laws will only go so far. In time, being a National Guard member will become a discouraging factor on a hiring board.

Secondly the toll it will have on the personnel life of the soldiers who signed up to be a part time soldier. Military families have to be strong in the first place, but having their loved ones away from home more will not help. Large numbers join for collage benefits, another thing that will fall to the way side. If you can’t attend a complete semester at collage, what use are the benefits?

But the most important thing about adding more time to the regular allotted time is the money. It is expensive to training and maintain soldiers. It is not unknown for a NG unit to at least spend a quarter of a million dollars for annual training. The pay and benefit are twice as much for a part timer working the boarder then a full time boarder guard.

If I was living next to the boarder it may make me feel safe at first, but after a year of having a Hummer with a machine gun sitting in my back yard, it will start to wear thin.

The Guard on the boarder is a PR move and a money pit. A properly funded and lead civilian boarder guard force is all that is needed. Oh and one last thing. You do know that the National Guard does not have the authority under present laws to arrest or use lethal force unless protecting ones own life.

Call me crying if you want, but IMO it is a bad idea.


complaints from the peanut gallery


I prefer cashews myself.
Reply #5 from JoeUser Forums Top
If you can’t attend a complete semester at collage, what use are the benefits?


DUH. You go to school AFTER your term of service.

I repeat, how can a white boy be so dumb?


A Guard member receives more then just the GI Bill for collage education in most States.Link

But they receive most of these benefits during their Guard Service time only. They don't receive these State benefits after they leave service. If a Guard soldier spends one year in Iraq and another year conducting boarder security out of a four-year term, they may not be so willing to re-enlist. I have seen this first hand. If what Senator Durbin says is right Link(which he usually is not), then we may see units conducting their two weeks a year during the middle of a semester.
Reply #6 from JoeUser Forums Top
But they receive most of these benefits during their Guard Service time only. They don't receive these State benefits after they leave service. If a Guard soldier spends one year in Iraq and another year conducting boarder security out of a four-year term, they may not be so willing to re-enlist. I have seen this first hand. Then if what Senator Durbin is right Link(which he usually is not), then we may see units conducting their two weeks a year during the middle of a semester.


All I can say is WAAAH.

Does the National Guard need a titty?
Reply #7 from JoeUser Forums Top
All I can say is WAAAH.

Does the National Guard need a titty?


No, I'm just pointing out my opinion and observations.
Reply #8 from JoeUser Forums Top
Sending troops to the Mexican border will not help. It will only create political trouble for Vincente Fox and the Governors of the border states. While illegal immigration has to be checked. The demography of the USA will completely change in the next 50 years if illegal immigration is not reduced. Itn cannot be eliminated. Where there is Capital, Labor will migrate and therfore Bush and the Bushmen are tackling the problem using heavy handed means which will not work.
Reply #9 from JoeUser Forums Top
Sending troops to the Mexican border will not help. It will only create political trouble for Vincente Fox and the Governors of the border states. While illegal immigration has to be checked. The demography of the USA will completely change in the next 50 years if illegal immigration is not reduced. Itn cannot be eliminated. Where there is Capital, Labor will migrate and therfore Bush and the Bushmen are tackling the problem using heavy handed means which will not work


Hey I got a great idea.....why don't you get a clue? For your information, what Bush is doing is something that seems to be supported by a vast majority of Americans. I've said this before and I'll say it again. "If" you're going to comment on American politics, please try to be better informed.
Reply #10 from JoeUser Forums Top
The left will be against this. After all, it will affect their newest voting base....illegals.
Reply #11 from JoeUser Forums Top
Sending troops to the Mexican border will not help. It will only create political trouble for Vincente Fox and the Governors of the border states. While illegal immigration has to be checked. The demography of the USA will completely change in the next 50 years if illegal immigration is not reduced. Itn cannot be eliminated. Where there is Capital, Labor will migrate and therfore Bush and the Bushmen are tackling the problem using heavy handed means which will not work.


If you read the content of his proposal, you would see that they guardsmen are being used in Logistics, not patrols. And then only short term while they try to beef up the Border Patrol by another 6000 people. INteresting enough, in his speach, Bush indicates that he has already increased the border patrol from 9,000 to 12,000 and that when he leaves office, he will have doubled the size (hence the 6,000).

But here is the kicker. Fox News, that supposed right wing mouth piece, states the following:

The president noted that by the end of his presidency, he will have doubled the size of the Border Patrol to 12,000.


Clearly you are not alone in not reading or listening to the speech as they screwed it up as well.

Link
Reply #12 from JoeUser Forums Top
Finally someone stated the logistical role of the Guard being placed on the border!

The training during this border deployment is exactly what their military role is; Engineers will build fences and roads, C&C will coordinate services, Communications will provide observation and intel, and cooks and supply will cook and supply.

Sounds to me like a perfect mission; prep the area for new Border Patrol agents that will arrive in a year...or we could just wait for the new Border Patrol agents to be hired, trained, and then pay illegals to build the fences....
Reply #13 from JoeUser Forums Top
I mean really, Lee, let's just call off the war in Iraq and leave our borders completely open


Did I ever claim that the job will not get done? Have I ever said am I against using National Guard troops in Iraq? I may not think the NG should be patrolling the border is a good idea (when it is more of a law enforcement problem), but I will be one of the first ones on the plane for the mission, when it is given to me.

I agree with most people here in saying that something has needed to be done well before now and that enforcement of law covering illegal emigration has been ignored. As the details of the Presidents plan is revealed, we will see what problems caused by a mission like this (that I have pointed out), will be alleviated. The operations staff at National Guard Bureau are not knuckle heads, and I am sure they will consider the best options.

I am also sure that there can be found 6,000 volunteers willing to do this mission from within the Guard Force.
Reply #14 from JoeUser Forums Top
The fact is like all half measure Bush's proposals will neither satify the right wing and the liberals will find all sorts of problems with it. Will these measures work. NG used for logistics and not for patrols or law enforcement. If thre is some problem will the NG be allowed to use force. This is a question no one has asked. I think unless the minimum wages for low skilled jobs in increased thereby making the domestic labor market more competitive, this issue of illegal migration cannot be stopped. Remember Mexico is really a developing country and people will flee to a capital rich economy.
Reply #15 from JoeUser Forums Top
NO LEE, the members of our National Guard wont be doing their one weekend per month on the border, nor their two weeks per year. They will be called to full time duty, and the 6000 promised is only ONE AND A HALF PERCENT of the 400,000 National Guardsmen we currently have registered, ready, and available.


You may want to rethink that statement.

Link

The plan placed in front of the Senate for approval will send the Soldiers on an Extended Annual training of three weeks (normally the two weeks of training). That will require at least a minimum of 18 rotations of 6,000 troops (not counting travel and unit change over time). That is a total of at least 108,000 soldiers in one year, close to a quarter of the Army Guard Force. I can also assure you that there are nowhere near 108,000 Engineers, Truckers, Scouts and CnC in the Guard available at this time.

I repeat, how can a white boy be so dumb?


How dumb can a white girl be?

But everything can still be changed. We will have to wait to see the final product.