I said it before and I'll say it again: For anyone at Stardock to claim it is cost prohibitive or technologically difficult to change serial number registrations is just a crock. The registry of motor vehicles can change a vehicle registration from one owner to another in ONE MINUTE flat!!!!!!!!!!!! It is as easy to verify possesion of an original disk as emailing a photo of the disk that shows the serial number on the case.
Some peiple dream of hitting the lottery and never working a job again. I dream of hitting the lottery so I can buy out Stardock and fix what's wrong with non customer friendly company policies (though I do salute the efforts of certain individuals who take the time to reply to our gripes). Fixing Dreadlord game problems like not being able to delete an obsolete colony ship in orbit withou launching it, and having to launch it with at least 1 colonist unit that dies when you delete the ship, would be one of my pet peeves that would be fixed within 24 hours of me buying out the company

Selling a new registration number(i.e. license) to users who buy resold GalCiv2 games is an excellent idea. I bought my GalCiv2 game went it first came out at Best Buy only to find that my video card didn't support shader version 1.1. Could have resold it thru eb/gamestop but I chose to keep it. Eventully, I upgraded my computer in January and now I can play it. I registered my game when I first bought it without even trying to see if it worked. I'm glad I didn't put someone in the uncomfortable position of having to aquire a new license ...

I have my legitimate copy of the game and when I first installed it the installer asked me at some point to provide an email address (presumably to associate the CD key with my email address). That's all fine and dandy, but now I want to change the email address that is associated with my CD key? Can this be done or am I forced to buy a new copy of the game just to do this?

Log onto the account the key is linked to, then go to the My Account link at the top of the forum, then to Stardock Account. You can change the email address on the account there.

That page won't let me log in. I know I am entering the email address correctly as it is the same one I used to register and the one I receive Stardock's spam about the new expansion. So I am probably not remembering my password correctly. Can I have the password emailed to me? I would really hate to have to buy a new copy of the game (and keep better notes of my registration info) just to deal with Stardock's security concerns.

It seems the server is having some problems.
I could log in to my account, but when I tried to change something (just selecting 'Gender', then the Update button) it did not work.
The first attempt resulted in a page-not-found error page.
The second attempt resulted in an 'unknown user' error.

Yes, just enter your email address on this page.

i updated the game using the update that is for anyone, and when i try to ru it it says cannot run activate.exe

It's not supposed to have activation on it, but if it does, then you'll need to just stick with the version that comes on the discs, sorry.

This is the most disgusting and ridiculous thing I have ever heard.

I brought this game yesterday second hand amd now the company want to treat me like a criminal because they work on the default assumption that anyone who legally purchases a used copy of the game is participating in illegal activity.

It is not illegal to sell video games second hand. If the company doesn't want me to purchase it used then they should have amde sure it wasn't available to me second hand. How on earth am I supposed to know they won't support all this before hand. This infoprmation should be on the box!

I am absolutely staggered at this. Do they seriously think i am obliged to get a refund (there are no brand new copies of this game on sale here anywhere so it's either this or nothing. But if they don't want my custom then i don't want their game and I will make damn sure no one else does as well). I have no legal leg to stand on if I take it back beause the game was not sold illegally. This just leaves me out of pocket with a product that the company churlishly won't support.

If they want me to buy their game first hanbd then they should make sure it's stocked!

This is beyond belief; I have never ever come across anything like this with any other game in my life. It's too irresponsible for words.

I assume then that they will be buying this version off me and compensating me accordingly?

Except for one thing: a used copy of the game is not illegal. So the shop owes you nothing. Why would they know information about the companies policies not present on the product they buy in/sell on?

Well, the money that you have paid for your second hand copy stay in the pocket of the reseller and Stardock doesn't get anything. Since Stardock didn't get any part of your money, why should they owe you something?

BTW, Stardock patches include lots of work. So they must ensure that this work is paid ... 

If Stardock's programmers had got it right in the 1st place there would be no need for patches. To put it bluntly: A customer should not have to pay for the manufacture's F!@# ups. It does not matter who has a legit copy of the disk. Who ever physically has the Stardock manufactured disk(assuming it wasn't stolen of course) IS THE RIGHTFULL USER!!! It doesn't matter how many times the disk has changed hands, whoever has it is ENTITLED to patches/ updates with equal rights as the 1st time puchaser. As an owner of Dread Lords, I will NEVER purchase Dark Avatar (or any other Stardock product)until Stardock changes this absurd policy. See Stardock: your policies are not only alienating owners of one of your games, but costing you lost future revenue as well. It is my hope that Stardock will "see the light" and become more customer freindly for thier own good. If not, they will never see a dime of my money in future purchases. Right now I am informing all of my gaming friends of the way Stardock is handling this issue and urging them to boycott anything Stardock manufactures. It would be a shame if a class action lawsuit were needed to rectify the issue, and there is probably good legal grounds for it since the policy is not stated on the OUTSIDE of the package for prospective purchasers to read in advance of the transaction. Seems like a case of deceptive advertising to me. I wonder what my state attorney generals office would have to say about this. One phone call to a local TV consumer avdvocate hotline and the resulting media coverage would kill Stardock sales in a 50 mile or so radius. I'm also curious what the federal government would have to say about this?(after all, interstate commerce is involved here.) PLEASE STARDOCK,,, do the right thing !!!!!!

It seems to me all this anger is woefully misdirected. The real problem here is the people that "sold" you the game. All they sold you was their backup discs, as long as they retain control of the activation they can freely download the game again, discs or no discs. You got scammed, plain and simple. Take it up with the seller.

Well, that is your view on the thing. But the EULA states:

BTW, Stardock's policy may not be customer friendly when looking on second hand copies. But it is very friendly for first hand copy since once you have registred your serial ID on Stardock servers, you can lost your disks and even you serial ID and still be able to download the full game and play it.

Mongo, Mongo, Mongo...

That was almost as eloquent as it was funny.

None of your childish rantings are going to put a dent in Stardock, and you really don't have legal leg to stand on.

Have you even read the EULA?

As for a program not needing patches, well, just about any program out there has needed patches.

To put it bluntly, you need to realize you're blowing this way out of proportion, as are many of the people on this thread, and you're asking for SD to do something incredibly stupid.

When you buy a game, (no matter where you are), as long as you're not lied to(fraud), then what you have in your hand, is all you get. The developer has no further obligation to create any patches, or fixes, what-so-ever. It's smart business and essential to future sales, but there's no obligation. It is the burden of the consumer to make an informed decision when purchasing a product. if the game is so bugged, that it's unplayable, then you should've found that out before you bought it. If you don't believe me, research Gothic 3, and it's developer and publisher and why everyone who bought that game are screwed. If SD gave into the ridiculous demands of some here, they would not only loose sales within "a 50 mile radius" (which is laughably small in the first place if that's the extent of how far the local news coverage is.....), but they would soon run themselves financially into the ground. It COSTS MONEY to continue added support. And they're offering, FOR FREE, the basic patch to anyone, regardless of how many copies they've burned for their friends. And for the rest of the patches, They aren't just fixing problems people, they're adding content, choices, new maps, new features, etc.

Would you go to work, knowing that 3 of the 5 days you're there a week you're not going to be paid? Your employer wants to pay you, but your company has decided to help a bunch of people for free, so they had to cut back on everyone's salary to break even? That's essentially what some here are asking for.....

Like Vinraith in #164, the original buyer is who is screwing you. Stardock is even offering support to those who bought used copies, for a small fee. I for one, would rather everyone who bought it second hand to share the costs, than for me to have to pay more to keep them afloat. You get what you pay for, if you buy something second hand, then you have to accept the consequences. It sucks, and it's not "fair" because the "innocent" get punished, but it's the only logical choice because this isn't a fair world. You're blaming the wrong person. If I buy a TV from my neighbor, and it doesn't work. I don't call Sony yelling because they won't come fix my TV. They won't, and if they did, it'd cost ALOT. Same goes for EVERY other smart business, not just Game Companies.

If you buy a banned serial number from an online game, you got scammed. It's not the companies fault you got scammed. It's your own for not being an informed buyer. You vote with your dollars, not with your complaining. People complain about anything and everything, and there's never a perfect solution. This is the Only solution that isn't stupid. Giving free support is stupid. If you want free support, then you're asking me and everyone else who paid for our privilege to upgrade our games, to pay more for you. I think I speak for everyone who wants stardock to continue to make their awesome games (and understands how a successful business works) when I say No.


GC2 is easily available to anyone who has the Internet. No excuses. I don't want to pay for you to burn your copy to everyone you know because it's an awesome game and then everyone gets to update their illegal game. Those are the people to get mad at. If you're mad at SD for not letting you upgrade, then you haven't thought this out. Those are the people(the pirates) you should get mad at, because those are the people that make all of the copyright laws necessary. It's sad, yes, and I'm sorry for everyone that got scammed out of their money, but you got scammed from someone else, and it is sadly laughable to expect first hand service for free.

They'd say that you're wrong on all counts, and that would probably just be the secretary who took a pre-legal course in community college, and dropped it 3 weeks in. I could explain it all to you, it'd be better if you would go read about how the laws regarding these issues actually work before making any more uneducated posts about it. Possession is not ownership and IP rights and licenses are king in this world. it's not ideal, but it's true.

Good luck finding ANY game with the EULA outside. At best, it just says that there is one and you can find it inside. Informed buyer = always winner. Uninformed buyer = usually winner too, but eventually gets burned.

I don't want to pay for you to burn your copy to everyone you know because it's an awesome game and then everyone gets to update their illegal game.

Ok guys(and any ladies who might be reading this), As I threw out a statement of opinion that is obviously controversial, I don't mind a lively debate. I don't mind someone else having the opinion that I'm wrong. As I have stuck to the topics of business policy I am somewhat annoyed at Moosetek13's "childish rantings" statement as I have not made personal remarks/attacks about any individual on the forum, least of all any personal comments about him/her (sorry, I don't know how to determine your gender from your user name). Even so, Its still a "sticks and stones" type of thing and I've got thick skin when it comes to name calling.
What I do have a problem with is Kodiak888' statement of ""I don't want to pay for you to burn your copy to everyone you know because it's an awesome game and then everyone gets to update their illegal game."" First, my copy of the game is a Stardock manufactured collectors edition, not some pirated copy. Second, and more important than that is whatever else our differences of opinion may be, I find your suggestion that I make and sell pirated software to be slanderous and request that you retract that statement!!!!!

I'd just like to add, if anyone has used steam software, for use with say half-life, half-life 2, counter-strike etc. That's probably the best way to deal with this problem.

Almost everyone has an internet connection, be it dial up or otherwise. It wouldn't be too difficult to make people sign into an online game manager program that allows selections of stardocks products, similar to stardock central. If you don't have the internet, then you can't use this product. If people can download their files, and it install the games for them, I'm sure the simplicity of the program would be appreciated by users.

It's easily verified, the games cdkey locked to your personal account, less piracy problems. You would have to sell your entire account to someone to resell your products, which means you would lose all of them. At the same time, you can change your personal information, give them access to the account, and they can change the password. They now safely have the game, with the serial, and there will be no validation issues.

Stage 1:
Someone buys the game from Stardock.
If it was an enduser, there is a business relation established between StarDock and the buyer.
That means SD has to supply the user with all support promised, while the user cannot make claims for anything above that.
(Note: by Swedish law, and common practice in most of EU, the user IS allowed to reverse-engineer etc to make the program suitable for the buyer. However the modified code must not be disclosed for anyone but the user and the program maker, nor may any part of the revealed code be used outside the licenced program nor disclosed for anyone but the user and the program maker.)

Stage 2:
The buyer sells the game to someone else.
Note that the original buyer could be a (former) enduser OR a gamestore.
In either case, it's the *seller's* obligation to make a complete transfer of the product, including serial numbers, manuals, CDs and if used, the SD account.
This is where the European praxis comes in.

Let us get something straight once and for all:
The court's decision against Microsoft was that they had to allow a *complete* licence transfer from the original purchaser to the buyer, no more, no less.

That means StarDock has to treat the buyer in the same manner as the original licencee, without withholding anything the original buyer was entitled to.
HOWEVER, that also means that SD has NO obligation whatsoever to provide support for *incomplete* transfers since that is an issue soley between the seller and the buyer.

Analogy:
A car manufacturer has no say on whom their cars as sold to once they have left the factory.
Should you buy a used car and find out that the seller has kept the gearbox, you have to work that out with the seller, as the manufacturer has no part in the transaction.
The manufacturer is however required to fullfill the 10 000 km warranty regardless of number of owners as long as the conditions of service and normal use isn't violated.

In this case StarDock offers gearboxes at a discount price, which is their right but not obligation as a service to the users.
I regard that as something to respect and even feel some gratitude for.

A lot of this heated debate stems from many who decided to go down their normal road of purchasing games second hand to keep costs down. Many of those purchases are from dubious sources. At the end of the day, to support users properly costs money. If the majority of those users purchased games from other people, the game company is supporting those who did not contribute by purchasing the game from the game developer.

At this point of course, out come the quasi lawyers quoting this that and the next thing - its amazing how many lawyers exist in countries, I'll bet the Law Society never realised the number of qualified lawyers there are around. However, Stardock use real qualified lawyers who learnt their trade over a number of years, and it can be safely assumed that having been established for a long time their T & C's will have been tested and verified.

Now back to the real world.

For me personally the issue is simple. Stardock go out of their way to support its users, far far more than any software Company I have known or worked for. The Product is a good one, and they move as quickly as practicality allows to fix most bugs - far quicker and with more diligence than any other I have come across.

For me therefore it comes down to whether or not thay give value for the product they put on the market. In my opinion the answer is a resounding yes they do. Therefore I have no problem paying the full price they charge. Neither do the overwhelming majority of users, else by now Stardock would have been slaughtered on the Internet Boards. Given that happy users rarely post on Boards, they dont see the point, the noise comes from the unhappy folk. No matter what system or quality of product, there will always be unhappy folk, either for genuine reason, or because they are professional moaners.

Overall considering the widespread distribution of the game, there is remarkably little disent about it on Internet forums. What there is is usually - not always, but usually - driven by the fact that individuals weeze for getting games on the cheap does not work with Stardock and their licencing system. I have no problem with the latter being prevented - they produce a good product and are one the few remaining - if not the only remaining - Games Company to care and support its users in a genuine fashion as far as sensible economics and sensible business practice allows.

There is an old saying in UK "You Dont Get Owt for Nowt"

In my view Stardock have got the balance between Commercial drivers and User Support correct, and their passion for developing GalCiv is obvious to anyone above moron level. Therefore they deserve to be rewarded for it and to protect legitimate revenue stream.

Life is not perfect ( "Life's a *itch and then you die" as they say). Stardock give good value, so I'll happily cough up the asking price (which is set at a remarkably low level considering the nature of the product), and comply with what are sensible licence conditions.

Regards
Zy

Refering to me, or those who not only use quotes without regard to the context but also use snippets from BUSINESS LOUNGE and the like as the sole base for their argumentation without bothering to read up on at least the general principles behind it?

Unfortunatly a growing problem everywhere I'm afraid... but what to expect from a world more concerned with Paris Hilton's sentence than the situation in Darfur?




The only one I know of comming remotly close is Stormregion, but then again the close relations are unique.
Nowhere else can you see the staff participate in the community (not counting SourceForge as the community IS the staff there like it's done here; without clauses about the forums soley intended for users who should consider themselves very lucky to get responce from the company at all.
That closeness was one of reasons I bought the GalCiv series, the other I got when I installed the cracked patch to my pirated GalCiv1 and saw that it wasn't just the usual bugfixes and bling most companies provides, but serious efforts made to improve and expand the gameplay.

Now, I admit being a cheap bastard using free software where available and also active in the PiratPartiet, then again I never hesitate using the Donate buttons nor finding a legal copy whenever I find a worthy cause.
Had I the time I probably could write a shorter thesis regarding the moral and economic aspects about piracy, copyright and free trade but I'll spare you.

To sum it up:
* Stardock is obliged to give full support on their products regardless of who possesses it at that given time.

* You are in possesion of the said product only when you have all components, which includes serials and accounts.

* If you have bought the product with missing components, you have to put the squeeze on the seller, no one else.

* Stardock not only meets the above obligation, they better it by providing replacement parts at a reduced price.

I still don't see, though, why you can't just make a simple way for the GCII registration to be transferable from one account to another. This would not require you to spend a lot of time and money, aside from adding the initial feature, and you'd still be supporting only the copies that you had already made money off of previously.

If you don't do so, it doesn't effect me. I would not want to sell my copy anyway, but still, trying to prevent the reselling of software beyond actual software piracy is just as draconian as the copy protection methods you have rightfully avoided using.

EDIT: Okay, I was a little harsh there. I shouldn't have called it draconian and you are under no real obligation to keep patching things, although that is standard for most gaming companies. The fact that your version of a copy protect method is so different, however, makes it very easy for people to fall victim to it without even realizing. At the very least, you ought to contact Ebay regarding this so they can prevent used copies of GCII from even appearing, which will save a huge number of people from falling prey to this in the first place. As it is, a lot of people, finding out they have to spend even more money to play a game after buying what they thought was a legitimate used copy, will, in disgust, likely give up on future Stardock games.

I think the ability to transfer licenses permanently within Stardock accounts is the best solution.

The problem being, those people listing it on Ebay should be perfectly aware that the serial is needed for the game to work. It's those guys you really want to be complaining about.