New Rating System - The Political Machine Forums

Reply #26 April 9, 2006 12:29 AM from

A variation on this thread seems to be started everytime you upload a wall lately. I shudder to think what were to happen if one of them happened to be rejected. But then you wouldn't have to worry about the ratings on that one. You're still young, I understand your frustration but hopefully with experience and time your ego will calm down a bit and your self confidence won't need ratings to stoke it. There are very few sites that have ratings. Why continue to post here if all it does is stress you. It isn't worth it.
I'm done preaching. Now who dropped my last wall from a 7 to a 5?

I may have to pull it.

Reply #27 April 9, 2006 3:04 AM from

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i dont mind if my work would be rejected or get bad grades from the administrators or members as I have said as long as it is fair and just(you should clearly take a note on this)....If it is alright for you to sit down and dont act to solve the problem then its your prerogative not to do anything...but as for me, I would still do the same thing as long as I know something is not cooking right. It is not your concern to tackle anything about my ego, I post here and this will remain my number one skinning site (bad for you though) because I have my reasons you need to respect. I never said anything about stress, in fact, because of this it made me even motivated to continue what I have started here. I will rest my case for now, and yeah...I was thinking maybe I should try to be more friendlier the next time someone asked me to use my wall..

maybe this would boost my rating a little higher..hehe..just kidding.

Reply #28 April 9, 2006 5:14 AM from

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None of the ratings are unfair, you just have to live with the fact not everyone is going to like what you do. If you are sensitive to that then maybe you shouldn't go public with your work.

Curious how it's only wallpaper authors who complain about ratings... hmmm....

For the record, it was me who gave the wall 8 - 'cos I liked it.

Reply #29 April 9, 2006 7:36 AM from

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Curious how it's only wallpaper authors who complain about ratings...

But Fuzzy...surely you forget certain bootskinners....

Most people find fault with the ratings.....because most people have different tastes and opinions...which is what makes life 'interesting'. [boring conformity/mediocrity is never fun, either]....

Cindi.... no dramas.....but I tend to get a wee bit defensive on behalf of my fellow mods....

Reply #30 April 9, 2006 8:12 AM from

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*sigh*

Reply #31 April 9, 2006 9:05 AM from

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homeryulo, it sad to hear you withdrew (deleted) your wall. I think your wallpapers are some of the best around in that style and I have admired your work for some time. It would be nice to see more of it (your walls) around.

As for the rating system, I said this not to long ago, it sucks at times... but no matter what is done people are going to complain... its just the nature of a rating system in general. "You can never make everyone happy." I have my probs and complaints too, I think we all do in some way. But, at the same time, so what... its just a number. Take my last suite of skins... its good work (2 months worth), original and very different... but because its not mainstream, highly sought after/accepted and the color is so odd it didn't get very good ratings overall. I don't really care a whole lot, I expected as much as it doesn't appeal to a large group (just probably a few like myself who would like to see something other than the normal mainstreamed, "dime a dozen" skins all the time).

It's all good though, rate the things anyway you want and accept the ratings given. It doesn't really mean a whole lot in the long run. As others have said... "I have low rated things with more downloads than highly rated things and vise versa." I personally have skins/uploads with the same thing going on. Homeryulo, your work is good man, don't let the ratings bother you so much

Reply #32 April 9, 2006 10:06 AM from

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Ok, so I don't have a lot of stuff submitted. But I do have two skins. I think the first one I submitted sucks. I admit, it was truly a first-timers submittion. My second skin, well I worked hard and don't have the experience that some have in quick design with Adobe or Corel. I use GIMP and a lot of close-up pixel-ing. I am currently working on two skins, one to match an existing Litestep by Immortal&Bates and one for my own fancy.

I don't think it's worth the trouble to worry about what rating a submittion gets. I pay attention to how many downloads have been made, and I am quite happy with that.

I have noticed that even when an oold-school skinner like essorant (just an example of name) submits what he admits as being nothing special, the ratings are still heavenly high.

All I really want to do is share my creations with others. A good word from a fellow WC member is nice, but not necessary. Ratings above a 6 might be nice. 100's of 1000's of downloads would be even greater pleasure. But all I want to do is share, trade secrets and learn new technique.

Every few months I see someone getting twisted over the rating system. I wanna know what the big deal about it is? Is there some reward I am missing out on, besides the satisfaction of actually completing a creation and submitting?

I am not trying to minimalize homeryulo's feelings. Nor anyone else to whom the rating system fails to satisfy.

A few months ago, it was the comments of a few stray chuckleheads that caused a bruh-haha. And just recently, scion feels that same prickishness coming at him in comments.

There are some in the community that submit so much that I don't see how ratings can be a motivation. Some names you'll see daily with icons, walls, etc. and most of the uploads are not up to the author own standards.

So, I ask: what IS the deal with ratings? Is it that important if already you feel that the ratings are politically motivated? Who is running for office? Is it a race for moderator status? Is it a race for Status?? Who has the most downloads? Look back a few years and look at what numbers there are to beat.

If you know that your work(s) are good, live with that. You don't need 5 million other people to tell you that you've accomplished something grand, when you create for your own satisfaction.

Head up, homer. Joke 'em if they can't take a (@)uck. Just don't add fuel to the fire by showing that you care so much about what others think. Not to say that I don't. Just so the reader knows: I care only when it's the good words I read. All the negative gets a nice flush down the "I didn't even see that" chute.

So, good luck with the ratings. Happy skinning!

Reply #33 April 9, 2006 11:41 AM from

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One of the reasons for uploading ones work To WC is to have it seen by others and to have it looked at by your peers. To have others guide you and help you to make better skins. I have yet to see any one give another person advice on how to make some ones work better. About the only time any one bothers to leave comments is to praise the top skinners. Every one says the ratings don't mean any thing. Well then I ask you why have them then? The only purpose they seem to have is to bolster the egos of the top skinners. And I don't see how the ratings can be fair when you have some people moderating skins and walls that don't even know how to skin. How can they rate any thing fairly when they don't even know what it takes to make a skin. In case the administrators and mods at WC haven't noticed the number of skins made each month are dropping. I have said it before and I'll say it again.. People have feelings and when you step on their feelings they get upset and make their feelings know by posting articles . Why should any spend hours making a skin or wall upload it to WC and ask for comments on their work only to receive a rating that will keep the majority of people from seeing it. A lot of people are real good at telling others how bad their work is or giving a low rating to some one, To bad that there isn't as many willing to help others out. Well I know the ratings are here to stay. I also know that the ratings have been unfair and will always be unfair as long as you have people rating the skins by who you are instead of how well your work looks and works.

Reply #34 April 9, 2006 12:38 PM from

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I have seen many times constructive comments have been made on first time WB skins. And of course the idiots get their shots in too, but it should be fairly obvious that they are just that...idiotic comments of no value.
My guess is that the ones who complain about the low ratings of their skins aren't looking for constructive coments to guide them and help them make better skins. They are just looking for a ton of "Awesome","Amazing as always", "Great work as usual" type of comments. "In my opinion".
Like it or not, many many people rate by the look of the preview and the name of the creator. Comments like "This looks great, 5 stars. I'll download it when I get home" on a skin happen far too often. But that's the way it is. Asking for fair, honest unbiased ratings and comments from everybody might as well be like asking for "World Peace".
Sounds wonderful, but it's not going to happen.

Reply #35 April 9, 2006 12:41 PM from

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I believe that in order to rate a skin, you need to first download it, not just LOOK at it, or judge it on the screen shot (unless it’s a wall paper or screen shot, and why would you rate a screen shot??). Widgets, WB skins, and lots of other skins have a LOT in them you can’t see in a screen shot.

Also, I think that if you want to rate a skin it should show your nick as well as your rating. This way people that are trying to gain favor with people will be very easy to spot, so will the people that are haters; IE: those that are here to cause problems.

This way you cant do drive-by ratings and rate EVERYTHING on the site, you would have to take the time to at least download the skin first. I think the rating system would be much better served if everyone could see who was rating them. It should be required to post a comment when you rate something.

I know this has been talked about before with people that post on EVERY skin, and rate EVERY skin, but with their name & comment shown, it would be obvious who (if any) are sucking up and who (if any) are the haters.

Again, just my ideas.

Reply #36 April 9, 2006 1:32 PM from

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Why rate skins at all?

If they did away with it, what would be the downside?

Just asking....

Reply #37 April 9, 2006 1:35 PM from

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Peoples tastes vary so much that it is inane to get hung up on the ratings system here. The only area where I do think there is need for a change is the structure that only allows members to see work not rated 8 or higher. For those who say to pay more attention to the download count, well it won't be much if the work is rated below 8 and can't be seen by the general public. It is right that WC downloads are counted for the Top Skins listings, but I think it defeats the purpose of the site ( which I would think is to lead folks to interest in Stardock products) to hide from view other work that is not rated above 8 when that is derived from solely from those that happened to be on line for those first few days. But hey, such is life in the big city!

Reply #38 April 9, 2006 1:36 PM from

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Peoples tastes vary so much that it is inane to get hung up on the ratings system here. The only area where I do think there is need for a change is the structure that only allows non members to see work rated 8 or higher. For those who say to pay more attention to the download count, well it won't be much if the work is rated below 8 and can't be seen by the general public. It is right that WC downloads are counted for the Top Skins listings, but I think it defeats the purpose of the site ( which I would think is to lead folks to interest in Stardock products) to hide from view other work that is not rated above 8 when that is derived from solely from those that happened to be on line for those first few days. But hey, such is life in the big city!

Reply #39 April 9, 2006 1:42 PM from

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Personally I have trouble believing in some "political" conspiracy to regulate ratings.

A great wallpaper takes skill to create, don't get me wrong. But you can't really compare the ratings on windowblinds to wallpapers. Wallpapers can easily be seen for what they are. Indeed, are probably the only thing you don't need to download to rate knowledgably. A good windowblind, though, will give you much more than any screenshot, in animations, mouse-overs, and compatability with one's particular style, and so on. This helps explain why seasoned Windowblinds creators get higher ratings--their work is better in a real sense through their experience and detailed knowledge.

Ratings are useful and interesting, I feel. They serve a purpose in ensuring the best is shown to casual visitors. And they can, if given a chance to even out, give some feedback to creators.

The biggest problem with ratings is that not enough people do it. You saw a "drastic" change, but only four ratings were involved. Just guessing that the wall had about 100 downloads when it was pulled suggests that about 1 in 25 downloaders rated it. Few skins will get enough DLs for a 1 in 25 sample to be fairly representative. The catch is, usually you want someone to try out your skin before rating. And if they do that they have to come back to rate. Which they will do only if they really like or dislike the skin--which can mean widely varying scores that will sway the overall. Which is exacerbated again by too few ratings.

Also, there may be a lot of selective memory in these ratings complaints. No one posts a thread: "Quitting because my rating went from 2/10 to 6/10 in twenty minutes!"

Reply #40 April 9, 2006 4:59 PM from

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My guess is that the ones who complain about the low ratings of their skins aren't looking for constructive coments to guide them and help them make better skins. They are just looking for a ton of "Awesome","Amazing as always", "Great work as usual" type of comments. "In my opinion".

i really think you wouldnt know that this is really untrue unless you make your own wallpaper from scratch. People who get even fair grades in wallpaper as compare to others are because of the experience and ideas they had from many constructive comments they recieved..and believe it or not, I would rather be glad if people would put their comments first no matter how negative they are in order for us to adjust our work according to your taste.(you believe it or not) and adjust some problems...."you should try that to some of my work sometimes"...and I know many people here who are concern with encouragments and improvements have done that to many of my works...you can try check it if you like...and leave your first constructive comment in any of it.

Thank you very much RomanDA for that very constructive solution. People should read your comment and you are the only one I think who has been so open minded about this problem and really offered a clear solution. Thanks a lot for that view. Very insighting indeed.

Reply #41 April 9, 2006 5:11 PM from

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"I really put a big deal on the Moderators ratings"

I have to admit that at one time I felt the same way. However, I've noticed that many times, though not with all moderators, they will just automatically rate all skins a 6 no matter the quality or content. I'm not saying all, but I know there are some moderators who do that. Which leaves it up to the visiters, members, and subscribers to rate accordingly.

Reply #42 April 9, 2006 7:23 PM from

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oh yeah...I just want to point out the rating and comment system in customize.org where the name of the person rating and the comments are shown together with their rates. I know many people here have some issues with that site, and honestly I had mine once, but at least the rating system is very effecient and the people there do constructive criticisms because they know they are being watched. Those things would do great in this site...dont you think?..just an idea.

Reply #43 April 9, 2006 7:34 PM from

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and the people there do constructive criticisms because they know they are being watched.

To be fair, Customize.org was legendary for it's asinine commenting/wit, years before Wincustomize.com even began. Things 'may' have improved more recently but I wouldn't count on it too much...

People are being 'watched' here, too. It's still the number one reason for people being removed from the site. That goes for poor rating conduct as well as poor commenting 'conduct'.....

Reply #44 April 9, 2006 8:01 PM from

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sorry Jafo...i dont want to be so stubborn here hehe...but unless maybe you have a system to remind everyone that they are always being watched, people would still do their reckless ratings on many works here,in fact sometimes I also tend to do it as immature as I am but at last I had my own deal now with that immaturity ....and that is not really very encouraging at all. Ratings should be more responsible here, we need discipline not only coming from ourselves but it would not be bad if the community would help push a little discipline in us, I am just asking for a little deal on that. Thanks again for taking your time on this.

Reply #45 April 9, 2006 9:27 PM from

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.I just want to point out the rating and comment system in customize.org where the name of the person rating and the comments are shown together with their rates.

Ya know..whether or not the site mentioned "sucks" or not ya gotta admit..thats a pretty cool idea...but this *has been mentioned over & over and over..LoL
Maybe they got the idea from here..LoL!

Ah well... just thought to "2cnd" the motion again,,and again..and...

LOL

Reply #46 April 9, 2006 9:42 PM from

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we need discipline not only coming from ourselves but it would not be bad if the community would help push a little discipline in us,

Looking after/out for a site the size of Wincustomize.com by overbearing 'discipline' from the Admins/mods would be draconian at best. Generally the Users here are sufficiently mature and responsible not to be needing their hand held by some authority figure.

However, when things go awry we're well stocked with thumb-screws and bamboo for the fingernails...so all is well...

Seriously, it's not really that much of an issue that the vocal minority is wont to argue. Issues relating to ratings....and the resultant threads are simply a seasonal thing, only occurring on days ending in 'y' ....

Reply #47 April 9, 2006 9:57 PM from

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okey..very well jafo

...i wont push it for now...just want to quote this though

issues relating to ratings....and the resultant threads are simply a seasonal thing, only occurring on days ending in 'y' ....

maybe it is the case because not so many users are so vocal about their complaints. But anyhow, maybe this is just unwanted things we just have to deal with. Life must go on anyhow, no matter how disappointing it is sometimes... thanks a lot anyways.

Reply #48 April 10, 2006 6:22 AM from

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My impression is that the ratings system works pretty well here. The mods keep it pretty well under control, as far as spotting those with a bone to pick or a thorn up their butt. Naturally they could always use a bit of help spotting those instances as they can't see everything.

The thing that causes most people to post threads like this every few months or so, is the facet about ratings that no one can control and that is rating based on how trendy the work is or isn't. I'm talking about what is popular or the flavor of the day. Believe me, the works getting high ratings today won't be getting them in few months or so, when the 'new and improved' trend catches hold. It's not necessarily a bad thing, although it is a bit lemming-like. But that's not the point here. Like a few other sites, Wincustomize, and I'm talking about the users as a whole, is fairly trendy and fickle; quick to glom on to whatever it perceives as worthy.

Here's test. Can anyone think of a submitter that has put forth work in the same style and quality for an extended period AND gotten consistent ratings? I can think of very few. For the most part, usually the last in a genre will be the last because, although it is every bit as good as it's predecessors, it has outlived its life in the popularity cycle and gets rated not on its merits or quality but on trends.

Bottom line, I believe pointing the blame at the WC mods is misplaced, it is the fickle and trendy users that change their minds about what is good and deserving of high praise and marks.

Reply #49 April 10, 2006 6:39 AM from

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Nice take on things and I'am sure this has excaped a lot of people. Not sure if it fits this situation but I'am sure it does apply to a lot of them.

Reply #50 April 10, 2006 11:24 AM from

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Very good point, trends do set a tone for rating just as much as anything else. Take the transparency crazy when wb5 first came out or continuing ones like the "Vista" cloning stuff... so on and so forth.

Way to go pictoratus on some further insight, as WOM said.