Frogboy Frogboy

1.1 Scoring Change

1.1 Scoring Change

Will be applied rectoactively

We've been analysing Metaverse data and while the scoring was taking the game turn into account, it clearly isn't enough.

That is, even if you're taking the game turn and dividing the score by that, one can still sit on a lead indefinitely.

So for 1.1, the game turn will be squared so that it has a much more significant impact.  In addition, the difficulty level will be applied exponentially.

Existing Metaverse scores posted will be retroactively modified. So, for instance, that 4million score that someone got by playing the system will end up being 13,300 instead (though we're going to delete the score entirely since it was a clear case of abuse). 

In terms of Metaverse scoring, it isn't just the faster you win, there's a sweet spot where you maximize your civilization's various strengths.  I.e. if you were to win on the first turn, that wouldn't really give you a great score because you haven't accomplished much.  I don't know what that sweet spot is.

The scoring system works as follows (in 1.1):

Each turn your population is taken, then multiplied by the difficulty level to the 1.1 power. That amount is then divided by the game turn.  The final result is taken to the square root.

Then your research score is taken into account in a similar way.

And economic history.

And military history.

Overall, population probably counts a bit more than the others.

What's new in 1.1 is the difficulty level being taken to the 1.1 power and that this overall score is then divided again by the game turn.

However, so that scores don't get ridiculously small, we are multiplying 1.1 games by 10. So there will be an advantage to using 1.1 over 1.0x at that point.

This will start with this week's beta of 1.1. We plan to release 1.1 final early next week.

42,162 views 82 replies
Reply #51 Top
One of the problems I see is going to be how youre score is going to affect the total overall for your empire. Many points are going to be lost.


Which means the establishment of a new world... I mean gaming order!
Reply #53 Top
Well follow this.

I just got a diplomatic victory under 3A for 12,900 points. Before that I was in 32nd overall place with an average of 235,635 points.

I now have a toal of 231,943... I submitted a win and went down in the rankings to about 35th.

Now, I recognize that the total score there is based on some average that is about to change, but... I will be much more happy when a winning score actually gives you points intstead of taking them away.
Yehah!

W/R
Suralle Straykat
Kat Lord @ Large
Reply #54 Top
Just a reminder: After 1.1 comes out, the 1.0X and earlier games will be adjusted in their scoring on the Metaverse. They will be MUCH lower scores.
Reply #55 Top
Existing Metaverse scores posted will be retroactively modified.


After you retro existing scores, what happens to the scores that are submitted after which are not 1.1+ versions? Will you be able to submit 1.0 games after the final 1.1 patch? Will those scores be retrofited daily or not be allowed to upload?
Reply #56 Top
Well follow this.

I just got a diplomatic victory under 3A for 12,900 points. Before that I was in 32nd overall place with an average of 235,635 points.

I now have a toal of 231,943... I submitted a win and went down in the rankings to about 35th.

Now, I recognize that the total score there is based on some average that is about to change, but... I will be much more happy when a winning score actually gives you points intstead of taking them away.
Yehah!

W/R
Suralle Straykat
Kat Lord @ Large


Patience young padawan. As Frogboy said, the old scores will be lowered substantially. So you'll probably lose a chunk of points. But so will others. So you'll still regain your ranking.
Reply #57 Top
After you retro existing scores, what happens to the scores that are submitted after which are not 1.1+ versions? Will you be able to submit 1.0 games after the final 1.1 patch? Will those scores be retrofited daily or not be allowed to upload?

They shouldn't be allowed to upload after the patch has been out for a while IMO.
Otherwise, Stardock fixing exploits and improving AI is useless for Metaverse games since people still can play and get scores from a much easier version.
Reply #58 Top
After you retro existing scores, what happens to the scores that are submitted after which are not 1.1+ versions? Will you be able to submit 1.0 games after the final 1.1 patch? Will those scores be retrofited daily or not be allowed to upload?


Yes I know it will come out and soon, I know I will automatically check the firearm prior to accepting it from another officer during show and tell

As for the above let me see if I can answer some of that based on my reading on the forums and journals here.

Yes you can still submit a 1.0 score... but, your shafting (remember the movie "SHAFT"?) I repeat SHAFTING yourself to the order of about 10X the score you could have had. As the "new" math stands with the square root of population, technology, military, and economy your score from 1.0 will be extremely low, so the folks here are going to multiply it by like 1.1 times the numbers divided by the turns and than apply the 10X to your score.

BUT ONLY IN THE 1.1 (+) VERSIONS so you really need to update. Of course you can update your stuff on Stardock Central (which I click faithfully like Pavlogs Dawg every morning after I check email at home than as soon as I get into the office and check email).

So I am going to continue submitting my games in the hope that the great Yoda of gaming that Frogboy and his team are get on the scoring so that I don't become the scourge of the MV. (Now doesn't that sound a bit over the top and overly dramatic!)

W/R
Suralle Straykat
Kat Lord @ Large

Reply #59 Top
Just finished Beta 3 gigantic game on tough, in 8 years, military conquest, everything perfect, huge population and income, researched everything, - 37K. I posted it just on principle, though it probably would not add anything to my score.

Numbers themselves do not matter and as I see from the thread relatively my score is pretty good. On the other hand, estimating very conservatively, the same game would give me 5 times more points in beta 2 or earlier.

Which means that unless all scores will be recalculated, it does not make any sense to compete on metaverse with betas, so I am somewhat disoriented right now.
Reply #60 Top
I don't care about the recalculation, I love version 1.1 beta 1 better than the new releases (beta 2 and 3) I don't know what will happen with the scores if you keep playing earlier versions, in GC1 the game will automaticly recalculate the scores. So far GC2 is not doing that yet until 1.1 is release. I like 1.1 beta 1, don't like beta 3 I tried and there are few things I don't like, I don't mean bugs, just I don't like the way the AI is acting, I like v1.1 beta 1 because right from the beginning you have to become a magician to manage your economy!!! I like that
Reply #61 Top
Well it only makes sense to play with latest 1.1 beta, as we're all going to be equalized or put on the same playing field.
Reply #62 Top
I know, but I have noticed in the latets beta that the AI is way too agressive, right from the beginning, I am sort of a pacifist
Reply #64 Top
I also would like to know when the scores will be adjusted. Of course, it would be nice if that would start with beta 3 which sharply reduced the scores. Right now playing on metaverse will reduce your (and you empire) overall score if you have some history of successful games. On the one hand it creates some confusion about whether it makes "economic" sense to post results right now. On the other hand, if new scores will be indeed adjusted by a factor of 10, I thiink it would be better to do it sooner rather than later in order to avoid sharp unexpected jumps in players and empire positions
Reply #65 Top
Many points are going to be lost



But they will be lost by all.
Reply #66 Top
We don't know "how" and "when" they will be recalculated. Generally, the only safe way to play right now is to create a new virtual persona.

BTW, I am not all that obsessed with points and never even played on metaverse in original GalCiv. But whole metaverse idea is point based, so the longer this confusion goes, the more people lose interest in metaverse playing, and, I am afraid, in GalCiv2 in general.

Now, I don't know, may be this recalculation is a very complex process and cannot be done quickly. But it would be good to hear at least some estimations. So I would know how long I can continue to play Oblivion .
Reply #67 Top
I agree. A lot of the competitve players are very interested in the metaverse. It sounds like the new scoring system will give a much better representation of all the players skill. All we want now is a ballpark figure as to when the recalcs will occur. Soon I hope as myself and many others are getting discouraged watching their scores drop every time they enter a win. My last 2 wins have been on the suicidal level and I have dropped 15 positions by posting them. Bye for now.
Reply #68 Top
Yes, after my beta 3 score dropped me a bit, I stopped to play and for some time watched how my position was sinking with many people still posting 1.0 scores. Ironically, now it started to rise again without playing. I could not understand what happens, but then I got it - people with 1.1 above me continue to play and drop down .
Reply #69 Top
Just my opinion: the devs have been working their tails to the bone, mostly to try and implement changes WE have asked for. Give them a break. The new patch just came out, and before five minutes had passed there were already people complaining about it or throwing in even more things that they want added.
Now, what's your rush? Are you terrified that your ranking might drop below your current #750 for a few days? Will that destroy our self-image and threaten our massive egos? Will people abandon the game like a spoiled child who doesn't get his pudding? Or could we maybe, just maybe, give the devs a little time to work on this before we start sniping at them and making still more demands?
Just a thought...
Reply #70 Top
You did not overlook by chance the topic of this very thread, Soulcatcher? Nobody is complaining about anything, people are just interested about schedule of changes that were announced in the opening of this thread.

Why would I be terrified by anything? Galciv2 is a wonderful game without any online aspect. And it is not the only game in town.

Nevertheless, Metaverse is a fine concept that could prolong game life, and all attractivness of Metaverse is based on score and competition, even if it may be not obvious from one game and 950th position experience.
Reply #71 Top
Nice shot! But just because I only have one game turned in to metaverse doesn't mean I've only played one game (I've played about 50) and it also doesn't mean this is my first time on a game ranking ladder (that would have been about eight years ago). I've been playing 4x games for about 30 years actually, before there were even pc's, so it's not like I'm some naked rookie that just heard about production and economy, etc. In fact this game is extremely close to Starfall, a game which came out in the early 70's, before most of the people on this board were born. I know that doesn't matter to you, just wanted to say it anyway. I've probably already played more 4x games than most people will play in their entire life. And I didn't try to maximize my metaverse score, I didn't hit End Turn 8000 times or worry about getting another billion people so I could rise all the way up to #945 and trump some 14 year old. I just played a normal game, took a tech victory then turned it in for fun.

Score and competition are different things from giving people time to write and refine computer code...coding takes a long time, as anyone who's done it knows.
Reply #72 Top
Well, after you wrote about 750th place of other players, questioning their motives, I thought mentioning your own would put things in proper perspective

I believe that you are good in this game, in other similar games and other ladders. Which does not change the fact that this competition is more important to people who participate in it regularly.

So what wrong do you see when people very politely ask about certain aspect of a competition on a forum dedicated to that competition in a topic, opened by the game developer about said aspect of said competition?

Reply #73 Top
I've found 2 what i think are major bugs.. one in the Game scoring and one in the metaverse scoring..

I've reported them both to the respective areas of developement..

the one in the Game Scorring allows you to finish a game in 12-16 turns (maybe even less depending of your starting setups) on any level of play and get great scores for less than 5 min work.. It does work on ALL dificulty lvls..

I posted a couple of game so that ppl can cee what i mean (see my player history) and don't worry i've asked the personel at stardock to please delete these games as I don't want to cheat..

Its as I was stating in another Thread... you can win in Alliance mode in less than a year and still get great scores.. hopefully this will be fixed in upcomming versions


the one in the metaverse happened while they were optomising the code.. hopefully this too will be rectified soon. I've been speaking to T-Man and he's corrisponding with Brad about a solution

So expect to see more scoring changes in the game and on the meta
as with GC1 Change is inevitable and WILL happen.. its nothing new and us old hands are used to things changing but i still think that the scoring system is wrong.. it shouldn't have anythting to do with how long you take, Rather What you've accomplished in that time.. this way those of us why like taking things to their limits arn't penalised for doing so. To reseach the full tech tree takes me about 29-40 years depending on many factors.. and no i'm never just hitting end turn.. a total of 48+ hours of true gameplay vand i hate it when ppl think that i'm one of those who abuse the system.. there are many of us out there like me.. just not as vocal.. I'm used to getting into debates about things (as many of you will know from GC1) and no i'mn not just a trouble maker.. I'm doing things to help
Reply #74 Top
the one in the Game Scorring allows you to finish a game in 12-16 turns (maybe even less depending of your starting setups) on any level of play and get great scores for less than 5 min work.. It does work on ALL dificulty lvls..

As you have been submitting political victories lately, I think I know the thing you're talking about. I consider it an exploit too and was surprised that it is possible. The corresponding option should be replaced with a choice of moral alignment if you ask me.
Reply #75 Top
I consider it an exploit too and was surprised that it is possible. The corresponding option should be replaced with a choice of moral alignment if you ask me


Moral alignment would be better, but only if the cost for choosing an alignment other than your "leaning" when researching Xeno Ethics is significantly increased (by a factor of at least 10, preferrably 20+ for me), or remove the option altogether. It's just too easy to take all the best events at colonization and then change back to good or neutral.

The exploit JTQ is talking about shouldn't be there - but if someone wants to play 10 minute games over and over again (not much fun in that) and win that way... good luck, the scores aren't that big and with the square root of number of games being factored in to the equation, it would take 49 of those games submitted to equal one 105K submission.

@JTQwerk - I fully understand where you are coming from on this, and it was one of my concerns with the scoring changes, but I think SD have got it about right. Even on "slow" tech rate I usually complete the tech tree in 7-9 years whilst still maximising population growth and economy, so you may need to refine your strategy a bit.