Remember that giant sucking sound NAFTA was to bring us?

From talking to a co-worker, who is also a good friend, I was inspired to open a discussion that I would love to see some reply on from the liberal side of the aisle, especially the Clueless and Old segment....

I'm not sure how many people are old enough to remember the 1992 election cycle, with good ol' Jug-eared and more than a little insane Ross Perot running as the third party candidate that helped usher in the era of Bill and Hillary Clinton by stealing away votes from the incumbent George H.W. Bush, but I definitely remember that time and the debates that occured along the way.

Those debates provided great fodder for Saturday Night Live and helped propel Dana Carvey into star status with his spot on impersonation of Perot and George H.W. Bush... "not gonna do it... wouldn't be prudent" and "don't worry about me, I've got $6 billion back home in the bank" which accompanied graphs and charts were pretty funny, both in real life and in the mocking that Carvey did.

One of the big discussions of the time was on the NAFTA treaty, and the possible after-affects that would be seen if that treaty was passed and signed. Perot used scare-mongering to try to convince everyone that wasn't already convinced (unions were already sure of the possible consequences and had no problem climbing on board for Perot's arguments) that we were gonna hear a giant sucking sound if NAFTA -- the North American Free Trade treaty -- was passed and signed. He was convinced, as were many of the unions, that NAFTA would cost millions of 'American' jobs (Jobs in the good old U.S. of A.) as companies took their businesses and moved them south into Mexico once the treaty was passed. After all, with NAFTA in place, Mexican products would be part of the North American free trade zone, without tarriffs and without punishment that would make such products and goods cost more in the U.S.A.

Flash forward to modern times. Do we hear any sucking sound? Well, I want to tell you that yes we do, and yes we have. We've heard it all along... Only the thing is that the sucking sound is not coming from where we were told to expect it from back then. Instead, the sucking sound is coming out of the U.S.A. vacuum that is pulling from Mexico, as citizens of Mexico continue to cross the border illegally into the U.S.A. seeking jobs and income. Looking for the 'American dream' and promises of financial security for themselves and their families.

It seems in recent years that the sucking sound has gotten even louder, as we continue to have far too many issues with our border security, and with illegal immigrants coming into the country. As congress argues over immigration reform and border security, and discusses various forms of amnesty (which we shouldn't even consider at all) for people that long ago should have been booted from the country, we continue to have a flood people that seem to get ever bolder about crossing the borders.

Our borders are not adequately protected and blocked, especially on the the Arizona, California, New Mexico and Texas borders, and we must do something to fix it. Congress needs to address this all in pieces. First, pass a border security bill that includes beefing up the number of border agents and a large fence or other harsh barrier that will preclude free and easy access into the U.S.A. along those borders. Second, we should pass a bill that deals with illegals that are in this country now. They shouldn't be getting amnesty and immunity from prosecution. They can fill out papers to apply for legal status, but they need to go into the lottery for the slots that will be available for guest workers. Third, in conjunction with this second task, pass a guest worker bill that offers an opportunity to workers to come into the country for a limited number of jobs. Those workers would be clearly identified, and clearly tracked. Once their guest periods are expired, they must leave the country for some period of time, during which they can reapply for another 'tour'.

And finally, but perhaps most importantly, we must work with the Mexican government, no matter how ineffectual many of us may believe that to be, to create jobs and work in Mexico. As bitter a pill as it may seem, we need to help establish more factories and businesses in Mexico to give the people there a reason to stay there. They must have places where they can earn a living that will help them provide for their families. We need to EXPORT the American Dream to Mexico, rather than importing workers into this country.
5,645 views 14 replies
Reply #1 Top
Just my $0.02 above, but hopefully there's plenty of food for thought and discussion by others.
Reply #2 Top
Illegal Immigrants is Mexicos biggest cash crop.
Reply #3 Top
I say we use the north/south Korea model..

Mine the border an entire mile thick, post signs everywhere and take the border gaurds and have them pick crops.
Reply #4 Top
He was convinced, as were many of the unions, that NAFTA would cost millions of 'American' jobs (Jobs in the good old U.S. of A.) as companies took their businesses and moved them south into Mexico once the treaty was passed. After all, with NAFTA in place, Mexican products would be part of the North American free trade zone, without tarriffs and without punishment that would make such products and goods cost more in the U.S.A.

Hmm, interesting how Canada is left out of the equation. I guess we're just an insignificant part of North America.

Up here, a similar (but subtly different) set of claims were being made. The players were mostly the same - the unions and the politically left of centre - were claiming that it would cost hundreds of thousands of 'Canadian' jobs (Jobs in good old Canada) as companies took their businesses and move them south into the USA once the treaty was passed. After all, with NAFTA in place...

There was some fear of Mexico, but not to the same extent as there was of the United States. While we both share the same weakly protected border, neither nation seems to fear the other's population crossing illegally in search of unskilled labour-type jobs.

Second, we should pass a bill that deals with illegals that are in this country now.

Canada is starting to deal with our own illegals. Although there are some differences between ours and yours, the problem is basically similar. Currently, the government is focusing on a group of illegals of mostly Portugese background who are working in the construction industry. While some are arguing that we should give them a break as there is a shortage of skilled labour in this industry, combined with the fact that these people for the most part are good members of our society (tax paying, hard working, family building, and mostly trouble free), they are still here illegally.

Allowing these people to stay sends a clear message to those who follow the rules - you will be punished for playing fair while cheaters will be rewarded. We also have problems with refugees, but that's a different story.
Reply #5 Top
I live in Arizona and am acutely aware of the burden that illegal immigration places on us. I don't believe we should declare blanket amnesty, but there is a huge dilemma in dealing with the issue and that is the fate of children of illegal immigrants born here who are thereby American citizens. I don't believe we can or should deport American citizens and I don't believe we should separate children from parents by deporting only the latter.

In order to effectively deal with this issue, we have no choice but to change the policy of "born here, citizen here" no matter what, to a policy of "born here of legal immigrants, citizen here." Otherwise, it will remain a hopelessly complicated mess that will never get resolved.
Reply #6 Top
Illegal Immigrants is Mexicos biggest cash crop


thanks to nafta and the subsidies we continue to pay big agriculture, it won't be long before people are its only crop.
Reply #7 Top
especially on the the Arizona, California, New Mexico and Texas borders

Ummm... I think you'll find that it's not just "especially". You just named the whole border with Mexico.

I live in Arizona and am acutely aware of the burden that illegal immigration places on us.

Absolutely. I am also an Arizonan (Prescott HS, Eastern Arizona College) and it's sad to see so many illegals NOT getting deported.
Reply #8 Top
Deporting them just don't work. I know one illegal that was deported, and a week later he was back.
Reply #9 Top
Daiwa wrote:
In order to effectively deal with this issue, we have no choice but to change the policy of "born here, citizen here" no matter what, to a policy of "born here of legal immigrants, citizen here." Otherwise, it will remain a hopelessly complicated mess that will never get resolved.


I've blogged on that topic before too Daiwa, and agree whole-heartedly. We do have to end 'birthright citizenship' for those born of illegal immigrant parents.

There are several ways of dealing with that problem, including first just plain doing away with birthright citizenship, but another way I would make use of that would hopefully convince the Mexican government to step up to the plate and do something about the problem they have not just been ignoring, but have been helping to cause -- bill them for the health care costs for these illegals. I admit, I don't know the best way to get those bills paid, but we have to try to come up with a way to attach a very real and very hard cost that would be borne by the Mexican government if they don't address the issue.


Regarding this great truth by XX above:
Deporting them just don't work. I know one illegal that was deported, and a week later he was back.


True, at least currently, but mostly because so many people refuse to actually address the problem. After deporting, we need to make sure of where individuals are. I don't care if it means attaching a GPS monitor bracelet, anklet, or some other 'scarlet letter' to them. We have to make sure that these individuals aren't coming back, and if they do come back illegally, we need to make darned certain that that individual and their family members are sent about as far South into Mexico as they can be sent and no hope whatsoever of ever being 'legal' in the U.S.A.
Reply #10 Top
I know one illegal that was deported, and a week later he was back.


a while back my friend mundo was picked up and sent back. altho he told me, i can't remember exactly when the bus left terminal island, only that it was very early in the morning.

it wasn't quite dark the evening of that same day when i saw him walkin up the street.

he didn't mention having heard any sounds...but he definitely was of the opinion somethin sucked.
Reply #11 Top

thanks to nafta and the subsidies we continue to pay big agriculture, it won't be long before people are its only crop.

I think the rebuttal to your comment (since Illegal immigration predates NAFTA) is in the article.

Reply #12 Top
I think the rebuttal to your comment (since Illegal immigration predates NAFTA) is in the article.


best way to ensure theyre gonna wanna come here in even greater numbers is to manipulate the market and sell them stuff their their farmers could once afford to grow at prices so low alla farmers gotta find work elsewhere.

of course illegal immigration predates nafta (duh); the combination of nafta, big agribiz welfare payments and damage they've done to mexican farms and farmers doesn't
Reply #13 Top
#5 by Daiwa
Friday, March 31, 2006

I live in Arizona and am acutely aware of the burden that illegal immigration places on us. I don't believe we should declare blanket amnesty, but there is a huge dilemma in dealing with the issue and that is the fate of children of illegal immigrants born here who are thereby American citizens. I don't believe we can or should deport American citizens and I don't believe we should separate children from parents by deporting only the latter.

In order to effectively deal with this issue, we have no choice but to change the policy of "born here, citizen here" no matter what, to a policy of "born here of legal immigrants, citizen here." Otherwise, it will remain a hopelessly complicated mess that will never get resolved.

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I was trying to give you an insigtful, but got this comment instead. So, I will just quote you and
Reply #14 Top
we can do like the movie"running man" catch an illegal in America, put a collar around there neck, it will explode if you try tom remove it,

Set up towers all along the border with Mexico if someone already been caught and deported tries to pass into Americas open borders again the collar explodes and remove his or her head.;