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A Closer Look At the Economic Sliders

A Closer Look At the Economic Sliders

Introduction to the Economy Model

In GalCiv2, there are separate buildings to increase the capacity for industry and research. These buildings (factories and labs, respectively) do not increase industry and research by themselves, but instead allow for industry and research to be produced by spending credits (bc). The sliders to allocate this spending consist of a spending slider that sets the percentage of the capacity which will receive funding to operate, and sliders to distribute the money into three categories of spending (military, social, and research). Military production and social production are both produced using the same buildings, namely factories, and in the analysis are summed together and referred to merely as production. In GalCiv2, the production and research sliders are effectively coupled; any increase for one causes a decrease for the other. By using the four sliders above, one effectively has control to choose:

1. The percentages of research capacity and production capacity which are utilized. These percentages can be as low as desired by setting the spending slider. However, the sum of these two percentages cannot exceed 100%, due to the slider coupling mentioned above.
2. The distribution of utilized production capacity to military and social production.

It is also important to note that these slider settings are empire-wide. You cannot set these sliders individually for each planet. There is however, an optional "focus" selection for each planet to set military, social, or research as a priority. Although it will not be discussed here, the effects of properly using this focus may have an impact and would be a useful extension to this analysis.

Colonies have an initial site that has both production and research capacity. Because of the slider coupling, it is impossible to ever fully use all of both capacities – half will always be wasted. This perhaps represents facilities that can be used for one or the other, but not both at the same time. Whatever the reason, nothing can be done about this waste and so I will avoid further consideration of it. However, the construction of factories and labs also results in wasted capacity which can be mitigated to at least some degree, and this is where I will turn my attention.

Analysis of Wasted Factory and Lab Capacity

The sum of the percentage of factories used and percentage of labs used can not exceed 100%. What this means in short is that large amounts of factory and lab capacity will go unutilized. Building fewer or more factories and labs can not lower the amount of capacity wasted, nor will increasing population or available funding. The waste of factory and lab capacity is influenced only by the ratio of factories to labs and the ratio of the production to research on the sliders. This is somewhat counterintuitive, but it has the implication that constructing and utilizing a lab increases the capacity wasted in all factories, regardless of all other factors.

It is important to keep in mind that wasted capacity is different from wasted production. Wasted production directly results in the loss of bc’s. Wasted capacity, on the other hand, results in the following losses:

1. More social production is used to construct labs/factories.
2. More planet tiles are used for labs and factories.
3. More maintenance is paid for labs and facotories.

Avoiding wasted capacity therefore has the practical return of providing you with more buildings that can give you other benefits, and possibly lowering your maintenance costs. So, just how much waste is there and how can you minimize it?

First of all, setting the spending slider at anything below 100% represents unused capacity. While it may be necessary in the short term, in the long term it means that you are constructing capacity which you are ordinarily not using. Nevertheless, this may be part of an overall strategy where the goal is to intentionally build more factories than you can afford to run continuously, in order to run them fully at times of need (for example, the outbreak of a war). As such, this unused capacity will not be termed as "waste". To see the waste which I am talking about, assume the spending slider is at 100%. It should be at 100% at least some of the time (otherwise you have built too much capacity and are never using it!), and we want to avoid capacity waste at this level as much as possible.

Let:

P = slider % on production
C = total capacity of all labs and factories
F = % of C which comes from factories

Then:

1-P = slider % on research
1-F = % of C which comes from labs

And so:

Production Factor = FP
Research Factor = (1-F)(1-P)
Production/Research Ratio = FP/(1-F)(1-P)
Waste = F(1-P) + (1-F)P = F + P – 2FP

Now, strategically we can determine our desired Production to Research ratio and independently assign the values of F and P from 0 to 1. Our goal is to choose F and P to achieve our desired production/research ratio (which tells us what our Production Factor must be) while minimizing waste. To minimize waste, we should maximize the product FP. Thus, for minimum wasted capacity, we should choose:

F = P = sqrt(Production Factor)

Relatively small changes to the Production Factor result in large changes to the Production/Research Ratio. For a PF of 0.5, the P/R Ratio is 1 (equal amounts of production and research). For a PF of 0.6, the P/R Ratio is 2.25, and for a PR of 0.8, the P/R ratio is 16 (16 times more production output than research output).

Conclusions

So, what does this mean? First, if you want a balance between production and research at maximum spending, you should build roughly an equal number of factories and labs (assuming they have equal production rates). You should also divide spending equally between the two activities. This results in 50% wasted capacity.

If you desire to have more production, then build more factories and increase spending on production by the same ratio. The more you do this, the less wasted capacity you will have. However, your research ability will decline very rapidly – faster than the decrease of waste. If you have 2.25 times as much production as research, and set F = P = 60%, then wasted capacity will still be 48%. Not much improvement! At the extreme, you can build no labs and only spend on production. The result is ZERO wasted capacity but also ZERO research!

Therefore, in practical terms, a large amount of capacity waste (~50%) is unavoidable if you desire any kind of balance between production and research. This is unfortunate because it can be confusing and frustrating for anyone new to the game. However, anyone else following a reasonably balanced strategy will suffer from similar waste and so it will have little effect. There is a possibility, however, for a strategy which eliminates this waste (specifically, a no research strategy in which technology is acquired in other ways). Attempting this strategy would be an interesting experiment (sorry I don’t have the time right now ) and it is unclear if it is worthwhile.

It is my position that the slider bars as they currently exist in GalCiv2 are convoluted. They do not allow the user to perform the desired actions in a simple manner. From the analysis above, one can derive a simpler model for these bars and the changes which would be needed to maintain game balance.

Not having truely played the game, I wonder what are desirable Production-to-Research ratios? Obviously this could be vastly different in tech-trading vs. no tech-trading games...
80,903 views 33 replies
Reply #26 Top
I hope someone of Stardock takes the time to explain this.
Reply #27 Top

Well, this system bothers me since GC1 days, and I really can't understand why it has not been changed : it's counterintuitive, convoluted and doesn't allow players to implement easily the production strategy they want !

Worse is that there would be a very simple and IMHO elegant solution : instead of one "Funding%" slider and 3 "mil/prod/res" coupled sliders, put :
- One "Prod Fundin %" slider (expense vs max total possible factory prod)
- One "Research Funding %" slider (same vs max research)
- And two coupled "Mil vs Social" sliders (x% vs 1-x%).

Make this and poof the production system becomes crystal clear

The problem here is that it removes one of the major strategic decisions from the game. As GC2 is now, every turn of the game you get to decide whether to spend your money on production or research or a combination of the two. But if you make this suggested change, then you can run factories at 100% and labs at 100% at the same time. The obvious strategy then is to build just enough factories and labs so that you have an acceptable income when the factories and labs are all running at 100%. In any other strategy, you'll have unused capacity that you should just get rid of. You could choose the ratio of factories and labs to build, but you're stuck at that output ratio unless you reduce funding to the factories or labs, in which case you've got avoidable wasted capacity. Making this change would make the economy a micromanagy balancing act, rather than a powerful strategic decision and would remove one of the features that makes GC unique.
Reply #28 Top
You can think of the sliders as adding up to 200% instead of 100%. With a 50/50 funding split between production and research, both sides are fully funded. With other funding splits, you are able to either produce or research even more efficiently because of greater specialization, etc., but the other side suffers.

This is actually a fairly interesting model.
Reply #29 Top
Nullspace, I don't understand your reasoning : personnally, I *do* want to just make my economy run effectively, plain and simple !!
What's bad about building factories and labs you can indeed use according to income? RL rather work like that, I don't see much of empty factories one week (guys went to the labs), and the reverse next week..
Plus it's not that obvious to just build what you need at any given time, because when a war breaks out or some event unfolds you would need to be able to switch to more production or more research, so still keep some unused capacity.
The current "strategic" choices you're talking about are to me just a artificial game method to prevent players from doing this effective management : you instead have to fight with sliders to reduce unused capacity, waste and so on, and never really knows what the settings you've chosen really do...
Reply #30 Top
Researching with Factories and Building with Labs is Crazy!

Since the GalCiv II sliders don't let you fully fund both your factories and labs at the same time but does let you divert factory output to research and vise versa two advanced strategies have emerged! In this
AAR, Wyndstar explains the strategies of just building factories or just building labs.

Am I the only one that thinks that researching with factories or building with labs is crazy!? I don't mean it is a bad strategy; in fact it is a good way to boost your production if you can keep from going broke. I mean it is counter to the real world. In a game like this you can't avoid having things that are counter to the real world, such as the map scale is way off (impossible to represent the true emptiness of space) but this is unnecessary.

It would be more intuitive to replace the current 4 sliders (spending, military, social, and research) with 3 sliders (factory output, military/social factory output split, and research output). Planets would have focus buttons for locally focusing factory output between military and social but not research. Now you may fully fund both your factories and labs but also keep their output separate. This would:
(1) make the system more intuitive (in the past 18 months I have read countless posts on the forums from new players confused by the sliders),
(2) allow inexperienced players and the AI to fully fund their factories and labs (not just advanced players who choose to use the all factories or all labs strategy),
(3) add realism
In short the UI change would enhance gameplay and realism!

p.s. What would Vista look like if developed at a GM plant and what would a Chevy look like if built by the Windows developers at Microsoft?
Reply #31 Top
Since the GalCiv II sliders don't let you fully fund both your factories and labs at the same time but does let you divert factory output to research and vise versa two advanced strategies have emerged! In this
AAR, Wyndstar explains the strategies of just building factories or just building labs.


I've been looking at this strategy, and I find several drawbacks:

1)You HAVE to plan way in advance because focus only gives ~25%. This can REALLY suck if you get into a war prematurely.


2)You lose and military or social production bonuses your race may have, so that some races work better with this strategy than others.


3)You HAVE to spend more during the colony rush phase.


[size="3"]It also has great advantages:[/size]


1) Tech production is fantastic. By itself, this can often make or break MY games, however, there are still the disadvantages ...



I like to keep about ~3% social production and ~2% military production depending ... and I usually build 1 factory on my home world while keeping its focus on social during the colony rush. When I need a colony ship I adjust my bar to max for a turn and then quick buy, but it depends ... I also keep 1 colony ship for transporting pop to my worlds. After tech research is done its all factories for me
Reply #32 Top
I hope Wyndstar will respond to your observations!
Reply #33 Top
It would be nice seeing as how he's an advanced player, however, I doubt I said anything really noteworthy. Anyone who's used the all factories/labs strategy has to already know this. I'm just basically confirming what they probably know already.