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Question about permissions

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Question about permissions

from WinCustomize Forums
Riddle me this...

I recently submitted a modification (LCARS New Evolution) of someone elses work (LCARS Evolved by Alpha-Omega)... which was promptly rejected for the reason stated that I needed to get Adam Soleys' permission because some of my graphics looked like his But no mention of permissions from Alpha-Omega from the site administrators. Fine... I obtained the proper wording giving Adam Soley credit (even though I used no graphics from him) to have the submission allowed and it was listed.

Promptly I started getting barrated and accused of ripping the work of Alpha-Omega and then the submission was pulled by the site admins.

I did however get the proper permissions from Alpha-Omega following that but the condition was that I could not release it here because of some bad blood (none of my business). It is currently released at DeviantArt here --> http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/29544245/

My question is this...

1: Why do I have to give credit for graphics to someone whom I never used any graphics? Adam Soley used (ripped) graphics that can be found all over the internet and he was not required to gain any permissions nor give any credit.... why is that?

2: If I make an image from scratch and it is even of a completely different color of an image that resembles it... does that make it someone elses image?

3: Wouldn't any images of the design and look of LCARS be a rip of someone elses no matter who you are sonce Adam Soley didn't invent the design?

I have found all of the images that Adam Soley used on the internet and many of them are not even changed in the slightest from the ones he downloaded and used, not even the colors... so I ask... why does anyone need to give him credit especially if not one image was taken from his (hardly even functioning)theme and reused?

I am not trying to start a fight but I was treated very badly and I would like to know why a ripped graphic theme is allowed to stay and everyone is forced to pay homage to the author when others are not.

Just seems funny that one person can be called an original author using images pilfered from all over the net just because he was the first to steal them and make a theme.

I am not soliciting a bash fest here... please... legitimate answers only... please
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9,668 views 33 replies
Reply #26 from WinCustomize Forums Top
It's ALL about appropriate Authority to request action


Did Alpha-Omega request that you remove my release from your site, since after all... he would have been the appropriate authority in that case?

And I still haven't seen the site admit to the data showing Adam Soley used images that he did not create therefore losing the privelege of requiring credit for graphics use (since he wasn't actually the first to use the LCARS images in a theme).

There were several before his.... shouldn't they be getting the credit from him and the rest of us?
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Reply #28 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Flack Jacket


I think you have a valid point; the permission system is flawed.

This is a fight you cannot win though. Pick your battles wisely.

A better system might be that only the author can request that a rip of their original work be removed. And if challanged, would have to prove that the work was original. Repeat offenders would be banned.

On the other hand, "permission granted from," "derived from", "inspired by" and "ripped," can all be very close from differing points of view. Better for the mods to leave that judgement up to the community and the the chips fall where they may.

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Reply #29 from WinCustomize Forums Top

One last time...

Overriding authority to require a work's removal is that of the Owner of actual copyright.

Example...

Apple demanding [not requesting] the removal of the MacOSX skin in 2000.

Second authority is the Site Owner's and the direction/determination by him and/or his agent/s.  The latter are those listed on this site's 'About' page as 'Admin' and/or 'Wizop'.

Zubaz.  You are wrong. The permission system is NOT 'flawed'.  It simply suffers from disparate opinion from some in the community.

It is NOT 'better for the mods to leave the judgement up to the community', simply because it is their specific responsibility as 'mods' for the site.

Leaving requests for 'original authors' to have 'rips' removed only will not work, not when there could be days, weeks or months before they were to become aware of an issue existing and in the meantime have said 'rip' disseminated throughout the general populace.

If that were to be the methodology there would be exactly no reason for moderation at all and consequently REAL ripping would be rife....

Reply #30 from WinCustomize Forums Top
If that were to be the methodology there would be exactly no reason for moderation at all and consequently REAL ripping would be rife....


Point taken. I stand corrected.

I do think though that because of the number of skins and the derivative nature of skinning that there's a thin line that's crossed all the time. I have always failed to see the difference of ripping some image off the web for a bootskin and ripping an image from a skin submitted to WC.

Again, I am glad to give credit where it's due becouse we can all do better work from the shoulders of those that have doen the work before.

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Reply #31 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Night Train,

I know why my theme was pulled and it was pulled for good reason, please do not imply that I am stupid. I would have thought that it was clear from previous posts where I have stated why it was pulled several times. My theme WAS NOT pulled over anything having to do with ADAM SOLEY. That reason being that I didn't have the permission for Alpha-Omega. However, the site didn't do anything about that until you and another person started flaming about it. This is where my point is derived from. Adam Soley Made a theme and he used images from the web and designs similar to all other LCARS themes before his and he gave no indications of obtaining any permissions from anyone for graphics or design similarities. On the website that I linked several of the images that he got his from it specifically listed who credits should go to if images were used... he gave no such credits. There are LCARS themes ranging back to 2001 that came before Adams that have images that are of course similar but he gave no indication of permissions for images that looked like theres. Yet I was required by this site to give him credit while all along he does not deserve graphics credit.

Admin Jafo admitted it already:
If StarTrek's property OWNER/s request the removal of any/all Lcars theming or images then they will be

Therefore Adam does not hold the right to claim and require credit for the graphics that he states in his theme because he is not the owner/inventor of the LCARS look. My point substanciated by the site admin.

Second authority is the Site Owner's and the direction/determination by him and/or his agent/s. The latter are those listed on this site's 'About' page as 'Admin' and/or 'Wizop'.

Site owners did nothing about my theme until others complained. Fine... it was brought to their attention and they acted as they should have. But now I bring something to their attention adn proved what I say and it is given no proper attention as it should because of obvious politics, friendships, whatever. It sure didn't take this much work when my mistake was brought to light.

Why is that I wonder?

I also understand this is a fight I cannpt win because it is obvious that this site moderated by feelings rather than what is actually fair.

I also have no problems with giving credit where credit is due. If you might remember, I gave credit to a guy that couldn't even figure out what I used of him (I didn't know either). I just don't believe a site should penalize somebody new over false godship credits to people that actually don't deserve it.

Remember... I am not taking anything away from Adam Soley, Night train, Alpha-Omega and anyone else that do, did and still make themes. They are a lot of work and originality is a hard thing to come by these days. Just look at the movie industry... seen many that aren't re-makes of older movies lately?

So in closing (of this statement) I will bid good-bye since it is painfully clear that you have to be somebody to actually get a fair shake when a controversy comes about and the theme that I love and work on is not allowed to be listed on this site due to the authors stipulations. Sites can and will be run the way the people in charge want... I should know, I ran mine with an iron fist but I did at least conceede when I was shown what I was doing wrong even though that didn't happen much.

Laters, everyone is right and I am wrong no matter what
Reply #32 from WinCustomize Forums Top
However, the site didn't do anything about that until you and another person started flaming about it.


Asking for permission isn't flaming. Why don't you blow it even more out of proportion.

I know why my theme was pulled and it was pulled for good reason, please do not imply that I am stupid.


All I did was ask a simple question to be sure we were on the same page. I was clear and to the point. You in turn acuse me of calling you stupid. If I were going to call you stupid I would say. You are so stupid. I don't need to be dodgy about it. Stupid is as stupid does.

You keep painting me as the bad guy when all I did was ask if you got permission from Alpha Omega. You then proceeded to argue about needing permission. It is convenient for you to paint me out as the bad guy since it's all heresay now. Well I know what happened, nothing has changed except now I know for sure I am glad I don't know you ar have any friends like you.

No respect for the previous Author that constructed the theme you copied/modified/used as a guide. None, zilch, zero..
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Reply #33 from WinCustomize Forums Top

As this has been answered (numerous) times by Jafo, I see no need for this thread to continue.

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