How many updates are too many?

Marketing vs. Service

from JoeUser Forums

In a perfect world, we could release an update every single day.  But from a marketing point of view, that would be a disaster. You need pauses between releases in order to justify announcements and the like.  If you're doing a daily update, a site like Blues News or Gamespot is not going to mention it, they couldn't.

I've mentioned this previously but when I play the game, I have it in the debugger.  Previously, I only had my own insticts to go off on when it came to tweaking things.  Now I've got tens of thousands of other people to rely on which really helps.

For instance, tonight I tweaked these things:

+ Tried to put more effort into keeping the AI from putting its rally points on its own planets which can disrupt its strategy

+ AI pickier about what it trades with each other, this should satisfy most people who feel the AI isn’t careful about what it trades with each other and the player

+ Performance tweak so that the AI isn’t evaluating putting a..ahem..starbase into a fleet. (it wasn’t doing it, but it evaluated doing so each turn)

+ Drengin and Terran AI personalities more focused on what they research.

+ Drengin tend to research more militaristic techs

+ Toned down minor races a bit. They no longer get quite as much money to start with.

+ Number of minor races is now randomized but still somewhat based on galaxy size. Generally there will be fewer of them.

+ Put a cap on planetary influence to remove cheese potential.

+ AI better at finding enemy targets.

+ AI better at protecting key home sectors

One of the things I want changed but isn't in my area is the ship upgrading.  I want ship upgrades to automatically remove the space-using components and just leave the extras.  I'm going to see if that can be put in tomorrow.  The current upgrading thing is simply too complicated and complicated = bad on many levels (makes it hard to use, increases the odds of someone doing something no one else has done which means doing something that was never tested and so on).  And besides, let's be real, we upgrade because we want our cool ship design to stay and we just want to toss on different weapons and engines and such based on the latest tech.

But like I said, we can't realistically do daily updates on Stardock Central and such.

So here's a compromise, for people who are really techie, you can download the latest internal build here: www.galciv2.com/latestbuild

Don't post comments on these builds to the forums or the support people will be really pained.  But you can comment on this journal.  Mind you, I code the AI mainly so some UI feature or something is out of my area.

35,831 views 25 replies
Reply #1 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Oooh, great. Thanks for posting this!
Reply #2 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Take a que from ID software's older titles, such as Quake: There is no limit to the number of patches that can be released.
Groupy 2 - Organize multiple applications into grouped tabs on your Windows desktop
Reply #3 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
If we catch bugs in these internal builds, would you like us to report it? Hopefully with more people testing these internal builds and reporting bugs prior to official releases then when the official releases do roll out, there would be fewer critical bugs like the ones we've been getting.
Reply #4 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
There is no limit to the number of patches that can be released.


If you can make the game better, run smoother, and the AI more realistic then what it already is. PATCH IT EVERYDAY, I WILL DOWNLOAD IT. If it makes the game better in any way or form, it must be worth it.
Reply #5 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
If you run into an issue that is NEW, sure, post it here. 
Reply #6 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
"+ Toned down minor races a bit. They no longer get quite as much money to start with."

NOOOO there goes my cashflow .
Reply #7 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
As a regular of Bluesnews for way way way too long, I doubt Blue would have a problem with posting an update about a new patch every day. He's been posting every journal update since about a week before release as well.

I think the answer to "How many updates is too many" is NULL.

But I think you might want to consolidate those updates into a weekly release or so. Take a look at Egosoft's X3 game. They postponed their 1.3 update for a terribly long time (almost two months), and the stuff that was in 1.3 definitely made the game much better. In such a case, why not put it into the hands of the gamer is smaller, more frequent steps?

Making an update every week also keeps the game fresh. If you start going the several months route, odds are people will get bored and move on, and no longer care about your update.

But updating too frequently (ie, every day or so), will soon lead to the effect that people are running completely different versions of the game, which can lead to a very confusing forum.

I think once a week or biweekly is a good guideline. Guildwars did a weekly/biweekly update for its first few months, and I rarely saw anyone unhappy about them.

Btw, good job on the AI upgrades, the fact that the AI won't defend its homesector very well has been a terrible eyesore for me. Conquering their homeworld should be a massive battle, not my four battlecruisers vs his 1 defender class light fighter.

Creston
Reply #8 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
"+ Toned down minor races a bit. They no longer get quite as much money to start with."

NOOOO there goes my cashflow


LOL, tell me about it. The Snathi are my favorites. They declared war on me in an early game, just before my frigate class came off the assembly line. As soon as it started showing up, the snathi hightailed it back home after having lost one battle.
Five turns later, the little squirrel came begging for peace, and I plundered 26K from his bank account, and a hundred thousand influence points for it.

About a year later, I declared war on a Snathi ally, and the silly squirrel again was at war with me. I talked to him four turns later, offered peace in exchange for another 15K and 140.000 influence. That lovely little squirrel was bankrolling my entire fleet

Creston
Reply #9 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Awesome...can't wait to try out the improved AI. Defending their home sectors? You mean I'm not going to be able to breeze in with a strike force and take their capital within 2 months of war breaking out? Are trying to make this game tough or something?! Perhaps even painful? Not to mention minors no longer propping up my entire economy...

Should this be used with a new game?

Cheers

h
Reply #10 from JoeUser Forums Top
I think as long as updates are automated and not inconvenient, you really can't have too many. As an mmorpg player, I'm used to regular updates streaming in for a minute or two before the game launches. The only time it is a problem is when the servers are taken all the way down for several hours and such.

People nag, sure, but they nag about bugs even more. The important part is making sure the updates don't make MORE bugs. Whe people could play yesterday but their game is broken today, then you'll hear whining...
Reply #11 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Random CTD with the latest build also

Here is the debug.err Link
Reply #12 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I think once a week or biweekly is a good guideline. Guildwars did a weekly/biweekly update for its first few months, and I rarely saw anyone unhappy about them.

Agreed.
Reply #13 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Once every 2 weeks is fine, gives you a little time to test your code tweeks.. don't want to create more problems than you fix. (looking forward to the ship upgrade fix).
Reply #14 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
A Suggestion: AI minor races should be allowed to colonize all planets inside their star system, if they are toned down due to less money at start they will be only cannon fodder for my ships.At least they should be able to defend their "lebensraum"
Reply #15 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Will the Neutrality Learning Centers be fixed in the next patch? (You can't build them in 1.0X)
Reply #16 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Ok this is the first time I get vanishing Turn button. Here is the save game for it:

Link
Reply #17 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
sam0t - that's a very useful debug.err.  Check out the last line - could it be there's a random event that's bad? What race were you playing as?
Reply #18 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Hey Frogboy.

The last game where I had really bad CTD issues was as Iconians, that debug.err is from that game.

I have had similiar CTD with humans and yor too. It very well might be somekinda random event thing since I only get CTD when turn is changing, not ever has GC2 crashed on me example in fleet battle or during turn.

I try to get more of these crashes to happen and post the debug.err of em too.
Reply #19 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
IMO, an update a week would be just about right. Any more than that and you'll run into issues like updates in the middle of save games and updates while people are playing on the Metaverse, etc.

Last week, you all promised an update by Friday. But when I got home from work, it wasn't there. So I went out, got something to eat, and it was ready by the time I got back. Which also means you all must be working odd, late hours.

Just wanted everyone there to know that I certainly appreciate it.
Reply #20 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
You can't update enough in my book. I've always seen the GalCiv patches more like updates to the game, not a patch which implies we "patched" the game due to bugs.

An idea for you on updates though. I remember in the days following GalCiv 1 what you did after the first couple patches was release a monthly patch or so but made the "beta" for patches available to Drengin.net subscribers (now TotalGaming.net for those that don't know). I'm sure part of the motivation there was to drive sales of the subscription service but you did get a large pool of beta testers, an automatic way to get it to them, and only offer it to the general population when it's ready for the monthly patch update. You could do something similar in that if you have TG.net subs only able to get the weekly (or more often) beta patches then you'd get a decent size beta group as well as perhaps drive a few sales for TGN.net.
Reply #21 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Should this be used with a new game?

When you click on the link to get the latest build, it says this: "Note: Using saved games from previous versions not recommended."

So I'm going with "yes" on that question.

- Ash
Reply #22 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Hey if you're putting out updates, I'll be firing up Stardock Central to grab them.

That is one of the things that impreses me about Stardock. After release of a title it's not so long and thanks for all the fish, nice knowing ya' ,enjoy.. Stardock is around to support it and breathe life in it. IS IT EVEN POSSIBLE TO MAKE GC2 FUNNER THAN IT IS NOW? Realistically, I dont' know how this is possible - But the updates always do. before I get all misty eyed... Thanks Stardock for caring .

Reply #23 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
"Should this be used with a new game?

When you click on the link to get the latest build, it says this: "Note: Using saved games from previous versions not recommended."

So I'm going with "yes" on that question.

- Ash"

D'oh...

Cheers

h
Reply #24 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
This is why I always finish my games before grabbing the latest update.

Gotta show those blasted Arceans that the galaxy's culture belongs to me, and put those influence hogs back in their place... Heh.

*quietly puts a +380 influence starbase next to an Iconian world that was in danger of cultureflipping over to the Arceans.*
Reply #25 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Since it's a single player game, as long as you make sure the update doesn't screw up the game or create problems (THAT could be bad) , update as frequently as possible. Now seeing the logistics of 'not screwing up' it would probably be weekly/biweekly seeing how you need to actually playtest these things before they go out.

And there should always be an archive of old patches and backward compatibility stuff somewhere, in case someone needs to use them because of the old hardwares acting up.

There's also nothing wrong with posting what you have daily in a 'masochist' place somewhere where people can install alpha stuff at their own risk.