Foxjazz

An easy way to become an atheist

An easy way to become an atheist

Probability theory

Pray that 5 black pearls will be found in a coffee cup on your coffee table 10 times a day.

And each day when it is confirmed that there are no 5 marbles, your belief will changed.

Do this for 30 days, and at the end you will be an atheist.
18,631 views 80 replies
Reply #26 Top
From your link:

"Atheism is characterized by an absence of belief in the existence of gods. This absence of belief generally comes about either through deliberate choice, or from an inherent inability to believe religious teachings which seem literally incredible. It is not a lack of belief born out of simple ignorance of religious teachings."


So unless you believe that some people are just mentally incapable of belief due to some physical defect, you have to accept that the Atheist weighs the information given him or her and decides which to BELIEVE. Atheism isn't a belief in God, but it most certainly is a belief system, and an unprovable, subjective one.

So, when you undertake to make yourself more intelligent, or more honest, or more scientific, or whatever because you are an Atheist, you are no different than people of any other belief who inflate themselves because they think their beliefs make them better than other people. You just adopt the bad habits of the people you despise, lording your philosophy over other people's.

And you keep, over and over, dodging the real point here: NO ONE BELIEVES IN THE CIRCUMSTANCE ABOVE. Find me a single person, a single organizational Christian doctrine that believes that God either must answer the prayer above or not exist. Never mind the untold numbers of other belief systems that accept the existance of a god besides Christianity.

The main fact about this blog is that it is based upon a lie, which is in turn based upon ignorance. People tend to hate what they don't understand, and I think the experiment listed above shows that Foxjazz doesn't know enough about Christian doctrine to be a judge of it.
Reply #27 Top
Jill,

Yes, an atheist says "there is no God." But also can say, "I lack belief." An agnostic says "I can't be sure there is a God."

If you have a feeling there is one, but still not sure, then I guess you'd be a searching agnostic.

I can't prove to you that God exists either. I can't prove to you that God exists using the bible, because the bible doesn't attempt to prove that God exists. It just speaks as though he does exist. I see "proof" of his existence all around me, but I'm looking at it from the other side of the forest. All I can do is introduce you to him and you judge for yourself.
Reply #28 Top
I think it is telling that the page linked by foxjazz uses forms of the word "belief" around 100 times, all the while trying to make the point that Atheism is somehow different than other beliefs. The lady doth protest too much, methinks.

Foxjazz accuses me of toying with the definition of Atheism, but if you look at their explaination of why Atheism isn't a faith, they do the same thing with the word "faith"...

"Faith is more often used to refer to complete, certain belief in something. According to such a definition, atheism and science are certainly not acts of faith. Of course, individual atheists or scientists can be as dogmatic as religious followers when claiming that something is "certain". This is not a general tendency, however; there are many atheists who would be reluctant to state with certainty that the universe exists."


Their own definitions shift and bob, one minute disavowing belief, and the next using the word to describe Atheism. It's really no different than any religion, tons of different divisions and definitions and in-fighting over what no one can prove.
Reply #29 Top
NO ONE BELIEVES IN THE CIRCUMSTANCE ABOVE. Find me a single person, a single organizational Christian doctrine that believes that God either must answer the prayer above or not exist. Never mind the untold numbers of other belief systems that accept the existance of a god besides Christianity.


This is true.
If it isn't there, it can't be forced. KFC, you are compelled to have faith in christianity. I am compelled to have faith in God (meaning a creator). Some people just don't have a 'feeling' at all regarding God.


I agree. I'll re-phrase..."Why don't you think you believe?"

Love is a good comparison. We know love exists but again, how do we prove it? A person cannot understand what falling in love feels like until they fall in love themselves. That's what it's like when you find God. You know He's real, but it's hard to explain him to someone who hasn't had an encounter with Him. It's hard to explain what Love is until you've been there.

And God is love.
Reply #30 Top
Jill,

Yes, an atheist says "there is no God." But also can say, "I lack belief." An agnostic says "I can't be sure there is a God."

If you have a feeling there is one, but still not sure, then I guess you'd be a searching agnostic.


Actually I am a Deist. Agnostics have no belief in God. They simply state that God can neither be proven nor disproven.

All I can do is introduce you to him and you judge for yourself.


But you can't introduce me to him KFC. God has to introduce himself.
Reply #31 Top
the mere belief that states "God wants you to believe only on Faith" can only be the beginnings of a scam.


"If you can convince people that there's an invisible man living in the sky who watches everything you do 24 hours a day, 7 days a week and keeps count of the good things and bad things, you can convince them of anything." - George Carlin

"There's a sucker born every minute." - P.T. Barnum.

I can certainly appreciate the appeal of believing that someone is always watching out for you. Someone up there is loving you and will provide you with a wonderful afterlife. I don't see any downside to that.


Aren't you too old to believe in fairy tales?
Reply #32 Top
God wants you to believe only on Faith" can only be the beginnings of a scam.


The bible says it, but that doesn't really prove anything. Anyone could have written a book and put the word "holy" in the title knowing it would help it sell a lot of copies.
Reply #33 Top
Aren't you too old to believe in fairy tales?


Where does your venom come from? BTW, I didn't say I believe those things. I said I can see the appeal of believing them. It doesn't require a fairy tale to believe that something we don't understand created something out of nothing. I just happen to call that creator God.
Reply #34 Top
“If the ignorance of nature gave birth to gods, the knowledge of nature is calculated to destroy them.”
-- Baron D’Holbach (Paul Henry Thiry), 18th century European philosopher

“When I look up at the starry heavens at night and reflect upon what it is that I really see there, I am constrained to say,
‘There is no God.’ It is not the works of some God that I see there. … I see no lineaments of personality, no human
traits, but an energy upon whose currents solar systems are but bubbles.”
-- John Burroughs, 19th century American naturalist


“The deepest sin against the human mind is to believe things without evidence. Science is simply common sense at its
best—that is, rigidly accurate in observation, and merciless to fallacy in logic.”
-- Thomas Huxley, 19th century biologist

“Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.”
-- Aldous Huxley, early 20th century author and grandson of Thomas Huxley

“When two men of science disagree, they do not invoke the secular arm; they wait for further evidence to decide the
issue, because, as men of science, they know that neither is infallible. But when two theologians differ, since there is no
criteria to which either can appeal, there is nothing for it but mutual hatred and an open or covert appeal to force.”
-- Bertrand Russell, 20th century English mathematician and Nobel-prize-winner in literature

“I have found Christian dogma unintelligible. Early in life I absented myself from Christian assemblies.”
-- Benjamin Franklin, American revolutionary, statesman and inventor

“The Bible is not my book nor Christianity my profession. I could never give assent to the long, complicated
statements of Christian dogma.”
-- Abraham Lincoln, sixteenth President of the United States

“To discriminate against a thoroughly upright citizen because he belongs to some particular church, or because, like
Abraham Lincoln, he has not avowed his allegiance to any church, is an outrage against that liberty of conscience which
is one of the foundations of American life.”
-- Theodore Roosevelt, twenty-sixth President of the United States

“I do not believe in the divinity of Christ and there are many other of the postulates of the orthodox creed to which I
cannot subscribe.”
-- William H. Taft, twenty-seventh President of the United States, U.S. Supreme Court Chief Justice (1921 to 1930)

“The lessons of religious toleration—a toleration which recognizes complete liberty of human thought, liberty of
conscience—is one which, by precept and example, must be inculcated in the hearts and minds of all Americans if the
institutions of our democracy are to be maintained and perpetuated.”
-- Franklin Roosevelt, thirty-second President of the United States

“I was dead for millions of years before I was born and it never inconvenienced me a bit.”
-- Mark Twain, 19th century author, humorist, and satirist

“If you want to save your child from polio, you can pray or you can inoculate.”
-- Carl Sagan



“Shake off all the fears of servile prejudices, under which weak minds are servilely crouched. Fix reason firmly
in her seat, and call on her tribunal for every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of
a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear.”
[Thomas Jefferson, letter to his nephew Peter Carr, Aug. 10, 1787.]

“I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you
dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.”
-- Stephen F. Roberts, Atheist activist













Reply #35 Top
LOL, last feeble effort of a dying argument.

Ask yourself, Foxjazz, what makes you want to come to the religion section, a section totally alien to your beliefs, to peddle your philosophy. Then ask yourself how similar your attitude is to the very religious people you seem to dispise.
Reply #36 Top

“If the ignorance of nature gave birth to gods, the knowledge of nature is calculated to destroy them.”
-- Baron D’Holbach (Paul Henry Thiry), 18th century European philosopher

Let us just take the first, for like the rest of the quotes, they all share a common theme.  They are statements of belief of men, who have yet to be proved right.  Hardly a convincing argument for atheism.

Reply #37 Top
FoxJazz:
IT IS NOT POSSIBLE TO PROVE A NEGATIVE


I keep hearing this from people of science, but only in regards to religion. Scientific method includes something called "Rule outs" right? When you test anything you are proving what it is through a series of "proving negatives". When I did ambulance work, I would diagnose through proving negatives. When a lab tech is analyzing a substance to find what it is made of, they learn what substance or substances the sample is through proving negatives.

When Thomas Edison invented the incandescent light bulb, how many times did he fail? What was his famous quote? Wasn't that a process of proving a negative 200+ times before he "proved positive"?

I'm not saying that all scientific processes include proving negatives, but as long as "rule outs" are part of scientific method, then "proving a negative" will not only be possible, but a big part of it.
Reply #38 Top
Not really the same thing, Para. When you rule out an illness, you are only ruling it out at the moment you test, and only within the person you test, and only within the accuracy of the test. You aren't ruling out the total existence of the illness, just that this one person, in this one moment, doesn't fail the test within the margin of error.

The problem of science is the human tendency for absolutes. You hear it all the time. We want to define things and then walk off from them, but our attempts to are usually foiled the next week when our technology allows us to get more data. Just look how physics has changed in the last 100 years.

I don't have a problem with Foxjazz believing there is no God. On the other hand he seems to think it is his duty to stop other people from believing in God. In that light, it's his responsibility to prove his assertion, and the article above is just and idiotic way to do it. HIs assertion requires him to prove that God doesn't exist, and without omniscience, there's no way to do that.
Reply #39 Top

Not really the same thing, Para.

I was going to respond, but Baker did.

Reply #40 Top
I just happen to call that creator God.


BTW....did you know the creator God, Elohim, of the OT is Jesus of the NT?
Reply #41 Top
I didn't know the same guy that wrote the Old testament wrote the new testament.
It seems to me that they were written over a 100 years apart. Go figure. They musta really been written near the same time if that were true.

The OT is kinda boring, all those begats. Too much incest for my blood.

Did you know that Darth Vader was really Lukes Dad. Damb, I thought he was just some evil kook. Kinda reminds me of some Christians I know.
Know your enemy.

Anyone that does religion is most likely either insane, or a good liar.
Reply #43 Top
BTW....did you know the creator God, Elohim, of the OT is Jesus of the NT?


So?

Baker, I second that emotion

Foxjazz, I appreciated the "did you know Darth Vadar is Luke Skywalker's father?" bit but I can't fathom why you are so antichristian. And boy howdy, if you are calling them your enemy, insane or liars, than you are indeed an antichristian.
Reply #44 Top
The problem is people, on either side, get so persuaded by their subjective, unprovable beliefs that they think anyone who differs with them must be evil, blind, or stupid. Instead of being "better" than Christians, Foxjazz has just proved that intolerant, undisciplined minds can be just has hateful and ignorant no matter what flavor of philosophy they espouse.
Reply #45 Top
Hey,

I think I resemble that!!! Please don't put me on the same tier as Fox.....but you're right about one thing Baker....I am persuaded in whom I believe and am waiting for the day...when it comes...boy will you be surprised!! But as for me.... I'm going to be ready.
Reply #46 Top
God knows, KRC, but we BELIEVE. In that case, all of us may be surprised until we KNOW. I don't put you on the same level as Foxjazz, because you aren't telling people that they are stupid or dishonest because their beliefs differ with yours.

Foxjazz just proves if you go far enough to one extreme you eventually wrap around and start behaving like the people at the other extreme.
Reply #47 Top

Did you know that Darth Vader was really Lukes Dad.

Did you know that Vladimir Harkonen was Paul Atriedes Grandfather?

Reply #48 Top
Did you know that Vladimir Harkonen was Paul Atriedes Grandfather?


Ah yes, Dune. Venturing further into obscure sci-fi now are we? Careful, the atheists will surely point out how nonbelievers can easily equate the bible with sci-fi or fairy tales. We don't really need to go there again.
Reply #49 Top
"Careful, the atheists will surely point out how nonbelievers can easily equate the bible with sci-fi or fairy tales."


But that would be no coincidence, given that there is much in sci-fi that was inspired by the Bible.
Reply #50 Top
I am persuaded in whom I believe and am waiting for the day...when it comes...boy will you be surprised!! But as for me .... I'm going to be ready


God knows, KRC, but we BELIEVE. In that case, all of us may be surprised until we KNOW


We’ll certainly know when we get Home, that’s for sure. I’ve learned that it’s possible to know even while we’re still on earth. (That’s said at the risk of sounding arrogant or utterly misguided, to others. But I don’t care anymore. This is just my point of view.) This ‘knowledge’ is like a similar sphere of knowledge to someone who might know that their own mother loves them. Although it’s not exactly the same, but that can illustrate the principle roughly. Even though this kind of thing can’t be proved in a scientific way, it is true that a spiritual bond - or spiritual reality - can have enough substance and truth to be ‘known’ by a person.

Regarding the existence of Heaven, which is the spirit world – the Real World - it is true that some things are secret for a reason. God obviously thought it wiser for His children to embark on a journey in order for us to search and discover Truth - and for our spirits to unfold like flowers - rather than to ‘wake up in the castle’, so to speak. The more our bud opens, the more we become aware – intuitively, spiritually and psychically – until we can actually know the Truth, or can at least attain much larger glimpses of it than can our five mortal senses.

There’s an all wise and beneficent purpose for this veil that prevents us from knowing the whole truth. It has something to do with promoting optimum spiritual advancement and muscle-building. From the perspective of the other side, where we can see clearly the bigger picture and all of life’s purposes – and all the lessons that need to be learned – it’s difficult to understand what all this fuss is about, i.e. it’s difficult to understand concepts like “doubt”, “struggle”, or “argument”. But as soon as we get down here, we can better understand.

Once we’ve experienced enough incarnations, however, and our flower has blossomed, and we’ve learned all the lessons we need, we’ll move on to other adventures in higher planes of existence. Ultimately, at the end of all our adventures we will surrender all and become One with God. (This principle of Oneness was taught by Jesus as well as the Budda, incidentally - John 17.23.) Buddhists might call this state of completion and oneness “Nirvana”. I agree with that. I also think it might be “the end of days”, for by then God will have experienced and garnered a great abundance of love and wisdom indeed. Moreoever, a greater good will have arisen because of all the crap and negativity than we had experienced, rather than in spite of it.