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Join Date 09/2003
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Why do people hate America?

March 14, 2004 5:20:13 AM from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
Don't think that I'm going to start talking about how much I dislike this country. This country is the best one on the planet and I'm damn well pleased to be living here. I can have my own opinions, make my own decisions, and even open a business if I have the inclination and motivation to do so. People say how much the rest of the world hates America, and if that's true, why do we have the largest immigration rates in the world. Plainly put: people know America is the best country in the world. Please, somebody tell me why America sucks. People complain that America thinks it has to police the world, and with the best armed forces in the world why shouldn't it be us? It doesn't seem like anybody else was willing to step up to the plate after WWII, and we had already expressed our discontent for Communism.

People say that Americans are arrogant. Damn straight we are, we've got the best country in the world and we're proud of it. I think that the people who say that America is a bad country are losers, and they're just upset over the fact that our country, as the late General Patton would say, doesn't tolerate losers. I'm talking to you Frenchies
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BulbousHead
Join Date 02/2004
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Reply #1 March 14, 2004 7:16:56 AM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
People say how much the rest of the world hates America, and if that's true, why do we have the largest immigration rates in the world.


Global distaste and distrust for the United States usually takes the form of contempt for our government. To a much smaller degree, some countries that used to be important, like the United Kingdom and France, try to shield themselves and their culture from too much Americanization, at which they sometimes turn up their noses. But overall, the opinion of the American people is favorable. We are generally seen as friendly, generous, resourceful, and hardworking. Even in countries that are traditionally not on great terms with the US, you will find that the distinction is made between the American government/administration/foreign policy and the American people themselves.


People complain that America thinks it has to police the world, and with the best armed forces in the world why shouldn't it be us?


Well, one could argue that Saddam gassing his own citizens isn't doing the US any harm, so we shouldn't care. I'm not saying that we shouldn't, but one could look at it that way.


It doesn't seem like anybody else was willing to step up to the plate after WWII


No one else was willing because no one else was able. Every other major country that participated in the war was in ruin. Japan and Germany were heaps of rubble. England got the crap kicked out of it while just barely escaping conquest. France had fallen. Russia lost somewhere on the order of twenty million people. We came out essentially unscathed, and we had The Bomb.


People say that Americans are arrogant. Damn straight we are, we've got the best country in the world and we're proud of it.


This pride, and overt arrogance, usually translates to disrespect for other countries, with which conservatives and pseudo-patriots usually have no problem. They consider it admirable to proclaim the irrelevance of the rest of the world. But respect is a two-way street; you can't expect the rest of the world to admire you if you dismiss them as meaningless.


I'm talking to you Frenchies


Believe me, I harbor no great love for France or the French, but this "freedom fries" business was horseshit. France was against the war, which is entirely its business, and yet, for some reason, the Right was indignant that they weren't helping us out.
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Wahkonta Anathema
Join Date 12/2003
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Reply #2 March 14, 2004 9:46:39 AM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
I think you should recall the French role in assisting America against Britain in the 'Revolutionary War'. Were it not for them, we may not be here today to be so arrogant. Don't betray allies merely because the President does not like them. He can be an anglophile, but it does not mean all of us are so. He allies himslef with the enemy of Americans in the Revolutionary War, while I tend to not dismiss our allies and side with the enemy so easily.
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xr700
Join Date 09/2003
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Reply #3 March 14, 2004 9:51:22 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
I'll concur that the freedom fries thing was going a little far. Wahkonta, we pulled France's ass out of the fire on several occasions, including WWI, WWII, and Vietnam. Even after that they're unwilling to assist in the Iraqi war until they get a benefit out of it (they sent several contractors to help reconstruct Iraq, but were turned down in favor of Halliburton). Yes, France's assistance in the Revolutionary War was needed for our victory, but if we hadn't of stepped in during WWI/WWII, they'd all be eating brautwurst.
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xr700
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Reply #4 March 14, 2004 9:52:17 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
BulbousHead, we were indignant about their role in the Iraqi war because they weren't willing to fight, but they were damn well ready to step in and rebuild Iraq for a profit. I think that's horseshit myself.
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voodoostation
Join Date 02/2004
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Reply #5 March 14, 2004 10:21:51 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
I don't recall the "right" being indignant over the lack of French support. I recall the media shoving it down my throat about every hour.
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messybuu
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Reply #6 March 15, 2004 12:32:11 AM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
I'd have to say that after reading many of the justifications to hate U.S.A., the reasons why people hate America is either they love France like a god (after all, only some fanatic obsessed with France would consider France's disapproval of the war as meaning the entire world disapproves of the US' action), think it's trendy, or are a fanatical Muslim.
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BulbousHead
Join Date 02/2004
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Reply #7 March 15, 2004 8:02:45 AM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
don't recall the "right" being indignant over the lack of French support. I recall the media shoving it down my throat about every hour.


...thereby shattering the myth of the liberal media.
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Solitair
Join Date 01/2002
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Reply #8 March 15, 2004 9:38:35 AM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
Excellent response to the original article BulbousHead.

France supported 1441 which would have led to war if new or non disclosed WDM were found.
They weren't.
Therefore France oppossed war.

They made a logical and ethical decision and had the integrityu and guts to stick with it despite US pressure. They are a soveign nation and entitled to do so. The sooner Americans realise this and stop expecting all other countries to do whatever the US does the better.

As for France trying to gain financially from reconstruction work, so what? It's a capitalist country and I'd expect it's companies to bid for contrracts. let's not forget that France has also contributed money to Iraq rebuilding and the US has asked them to scrap debt.

"Please scrap 1,000,000,000 dollars in Iraqi debt that they owe you. Oh and you can't bid for any Iraqi rebuilding contracts".

Sound OK to you? And you wonder why others may hate the US government.

Paul.
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messybuu
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Reply #9 March 15, 2004 10:59:06 AM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
I thought France hated the U.S. government because it toppled Saddam's regime, thereby ruining a great source of income for itself. Blood for oil is wrong, but maintaining a cruel dictatorship for money is all right.
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BulbousHead
Join Date 02/2004
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Reply #10 March 15, 2004 11:02:00 AM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
I thought France hated the U.S. government because it toppled Saddam's regime


Yes, it all started when we won the war.

Wake up.
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JeremyG
Join Date 03/2001
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Reply #11 March 15, 2004 11:08:02 AM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
Ironic that American is based on christian morals and yet we have an abundance of pride....the worst of sins.
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BulbousHead
Join Date 02/2004
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Reply #12 March 15, 2004 11:29:12 AM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
Ironic that American is based on christian morals and yet we have an abundance of pride....the worst of sins.


It's not ironic when you realize that American Christianity is a facade, a cheap excuse for why we claim the moral high ground, at home and abroad.
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Solitair
Join Date 01/2002
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Reply #13 March 15, 2004 11:52:38 AM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
SuperBaby,
not sure if your reply was sarcastic or real. Both French and Russian companies signed contract with Iraq for the redevelopment of it's oil at the end of sanctions. Note that NO money was available till UN sanction were lifted, which were NOT going to happen under 1441 till Iraq was disarmed. I think US companies were a little annoyed as US sanctions meant they could not. Don't worry though, the US invaded Iraq, ripped up the French and Russian contracts, and gave the oil fields to US companies to develop. So which country looks worst? France and Russia for letting their companies prepare for post sanction Iraq thereby giving Saddam some form of international support, or the US for just giving the huge oil contracts to it's companies to exploit and rip off the American people?

I'd say all of them.

Paul.
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MyViewsAndMuse
Join Date 05/2003
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Reply #14 March 15, 2004 12:27:15 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
Believe me, I harbor no great love for France or the French, but this "freedom fries" business was horseshit.

A embarassment they were. Excellent post by the way.

They made a logical and ethical decision and had the integrityu and guts to stick with it despite US pressure. They are a soveign nation and entitled to do so. The sooner Americans realise this and stop expecting all other countries to do whatever the US does the better.

Agreed, the whole issue of trying to get everyone's approval is a waste of time.

Don't worry though, the US invaded Iraq, ripped up the French and Russian contracts, and gave the oil fields to US companies to develop

Rats! Still waiting for the price of gas to drop.
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Draginol
Join Date 03/2001
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Reply #15 March 15, 2004 12:42:07 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
France hates the United States because France is a wannabe. They see the US as what they had hoped they would be. And they believe that they would do things much better than the US if they were the hegemon.
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BulbousHead
Join Date 02/2004
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Reply #16 March 15, 2004 12:47:43 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
France hates the United States because France is a wannabe.


While France is a wannabe and does long for the old days when they were a world power, I don't think they hate the United States. You can be bitter, which they are, without hating someone. If they do hate us now, it's because we've been assholes lately. I'd hate our arrogance, too.
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MyViewsAndMuse
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Reply #17 March 15, 2004 2:11:14 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
France hates the United States because France is a wannabe.


Hate is a strong word, I think it is more envy and jealousy. They do recognize their position and what the US has done for them. At my previous company there was a Frenchman from our Paris office who was visiting for a couple of weeks. One day (May 8 I believe) he told me and the other guys that he was taking us to lunch. I figured it was just to get to know us better. Turns out he told us it was Victory Day, when he was asked what that meant he responded by saying it was a celebration of the day we saved them. I found it very interesting that a 30+ year old man who was not directly touched in any way by WWII would feel so inclined as to recognize the holiday much less take a bunch of us out to lunch.
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messybuu
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Reply #18 March 15, 2004 5:56:35 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
I'm not clear about the details, but I remember hearing that France profitted from Iraq in other ways, like with food. Even if I'm mistaken about that, I still think the U.S. looks better than France in this situation. After all, what looks better: countries that maintain a cruel dictatorship from which to profit, or a country that destroys a cruel dictatorship and builds a democratic government from which to profit?
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BulbousHead
Join Date 02/2004
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Reply #19 March 15, 2004 6:01:32 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
I'm not clear about the details, but I remember hearing that France profitted from Iraq in other ways, like with food.


Ah, I understand. You're bitter because you believe that you should only profit from a country after you bomb it and invade it.


I still think the U.S. looks better than France in this situation.


When the President announced that he was not allowing all the countries that were mean to him to secure contracts in Iraq, he sounded really petulant and spiteful. It also doesn't help that Cheney's Halliburton is cleaning up on the deal.
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cgarrett
Join Date 02/2004
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Reply #20 March 15, 2004 6:09:59 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
people don't like americans because...
1) they directly supported the chilean coup against a democratically elected government (1973 documents now declassified)
2) they continue to mess with central american politics due to the outright ownership of the regions most precious agricultural land by three american companies (united fruit, national fruit etc...). any attempt to pull the people out of poverty using their own nations wealth and democracy is met with u.s. funded violence
3) they supported iran while the shaw and his band of thugs ruled (not that its much better now)
4) they supported saddam husien while he was slaughtering iranians and his own people (no w.m.d's... that IS a surprise since dick c. was over there selling them to him during the regan admin). the civilian death toll now at 8 million as reported by the globe and mail. gee thats 2 million more than the holocaust!
5) they still support murderous tyrannies all over the islam world (kuwait, saudi arabia) etc... due to their having oil stakes there. the paradox being that saudi arabian money is still financing "terrorism".
6) they supported south african apartheid (Mandela was on the list of terrorists for many years)
7) they support isreals apartheid
8) the nigerian people have been in a state of civil war for decades... a poor people from the richest oil country in africa... owned by american oil producers.
9) vietnam... oh yes, "the cold war" or more specifically "the war against communist aggression in south east asia". "the war on drugs", "the war on terror", whatever... the perpetual war of george orwells 1984... to this day the united states refuses to divulge the location of nasty mine fields that stopped killing soldiers years ago and today only take civilian limbs off.
10) creating the most green house gases in the world... and loving it!

well, i haven't got all day here... you can find out the rest.
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cgarrett
Join Date 02/2004
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Reply #21 March 15, 2004 6:32:50 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
actually, if all you can talk about is those damn "frenchies" well then i know that you feel informed by reading a billionaire owned newspaper or nbc(microsoft and ge's propaganda machine!

here's a good article on what words to watch out for in printed meda and tv...
http://zena.secureforum.com/Znet/zmag/zarticle.cfm?Url=articles/june97herman.htm
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Solitair
Join Date 01/2002
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Reply #22 March 16, 2004 4:24:06 AM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
Actually I think that France and Russia directly undermined the UN by negoiating treaties with Iraq while they were under sanctions. This very behaviour was emboldening Saddam as he could see an end. I presonally believe that all countries should be banned from negotiating economic contract with a country under international sanctions (not just US, hence Cuba and now Libya are fair game).

The current US administration is not helping by allocating Iraqi rebuilding work solely to US companies (and those that supported the war with troops). There will be hell to pay in years to come if the Iraqi people feel cheated. Not to mention the US people when they realise just how much money they have been swindled out of by these companies.

Paul.
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Draginol
Join Date 03/2001
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Reply #23 March 17, 2004 12:11:22 AM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
Don't be too sure. Can you name any of the major companies who were involved in rebuilding Japan? Germany?
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