Frogboy Frogboy

Launch Day Experiences

Launch Day Experiences

Observations and survival guide

That is the bandwidth graph from yesterday of JUST the multimedia/movies module.  It's measured in megabits. So we peeked at over 300 megabits per second yesterday on just that.  To put things in perspective, Galactic Civilizations I required a total of 30 megabits of bandwidth for the entire game. 

You can see where at around 4pm Cogent, our ISP for our database server, hic-upped causing the default server to not transmit.  At 4:15pm, you had numerous people posting on the forum about how bad their download experience was and when it came back at 4:30pm, everything was fine again.

Observations

I would make a terrible tech support person. I just don't have the patience for it.  I'm an engineer so I tend to get riled at hyperbole in descriptions.  So here are some things I've noticed:

#1. Not only will people not read the manual. They won't read the readme. They also won't read the sticky posts with titles such as "STICKY: Don't have sound? Make sure you download the multimedia!".  I took a screenshot last night where the forum list literally had two "NO SOUND!!11" type posts in a row that were directly underneath the sticky.

 

#2 Similar to #1, people won't update their video drivers no matter how many times you tell them.  One user, who posted several different places how "buggy" the game was because it kept crashing on them finally, after much loud complaining, gave us a debug.err.  He had an ATI card with drivers from 2003.  His debug.err file actually contained the notice that it had brought up a warning dialog about his drivers.  In email, I went back and forth with him that boiled down to this:

Me: Didn't you read the Readme where it says "We're serious, you MUST update your video drivers if they're older than a year."?

User: No. I don't have time for that.

Me: You didn't read the sticky post entitled: "Having an in-game problem? Read here for tips!" which said "You absolutely must update your video driver, if you make posts saying how the game crashes intermittently on you and it turns out you have some video driver from 2004 we'll find you! ;)"?  And your video driver is even older than that.

User: No.

Me: You didn't heed the warning dialog that came up when you launched the game that said "Your video drivers are old.  You will experience problems if you don't update them. Your drivers are dated 9/1/2003"

User: I didn't think that applied to me. My other games don't have a problem.

This kept up over and over. And the problem is that people who don't read the Readmes or Stickies end up crowding out posts from people with legitimate issues.  Moreover, it makes it tough (at least for me) not to get jaded when someone posts yet another vague issue.  Is it yet another person who decided to rush to the forums and make another all caps post proclaiming "problems" without having even looked at the readme.   And just to be safe, we made stickies and knowledge based articles.

 

#3 Three people can completely change the perception of an entire forum.  I read on Penny-Arcade about companies hiring moles to go around and make their products look more well liked on forums? It would probably be more efficient to hire moles to go onto other people's forums and say negative things about someone else (That's not happening here btw, it's just a joke).  Because 3 people having problems (Real or imagined) can make enough posts and responses to make something trivial look like it's wide-spread.

Since we know the stats (how many people actually have the game) and the number of different people having a problem, we know some things I've seen are not widespread.  But you get a couple guys responding in every post or making 5 or 6 posts with the same general subject "GAME BUGS IN RELeASE!!!11" and soon you get people asking "Wow, it's buggy!"

That's not saying that the game is free of bugs. Certainly not.  But at a certain point, on a PC game, we're at the mercy of the hardware vendors and their drivers.  We can't come over to people's houses at gun point (yet) and force them to update their drivers.  We can't force handful of people running 16-bit color to change their color depth from 65,000 colors to 32bit color.  If there was an easy programmatic solution to force the color depth change (Direct3D certainly seems to have one and we're using it but on newer video drivers they seem to assume no one even runs at 16bit color anymore) we would do it.

The main thing is that I now really understand why game publishers get tempted to censor or control their forums because it's really frustrating to see a handful of people changing the whole flow. 

I also see why many publishers get accused of trying to "cover up" bugs. Because what happens is that the vocal people who don't read the readmes or the docs or even the sticky forum posts will start accusing the developer of trying to not acknowledge "a very real problem" because they don't want to admit that they just didn't bother to read the docs.

Like I said, there are definitely glitches in the game. But virtually everything I've seen (and I've been living on those forums) fall into the the trivial or the obscure.  They are things we'll fix as quickly as we can, but if you read the posts, you would think "OH man, maybe it's buggy?"

 

#4 Stardock Central's UI caused a lot of grief.  The biggest problem of the release in my opinion was that in Stardock Central, when you click on the game to download, it doesn't automatically expand to display the other modules. As a result, people download the game and don't download the sound, multimedia, movies, or tutorials.  I don't blame them. That's bad UI on our part and we're fixing that and putting it out as we speak.

 

#5 The most serious real bugs (i.e. not individual specific) I've seen are:

  • If you add enough jewelry to your ship (i.e. the cosmetic addons) the game will eventually crash.  In all my game play examples and all our testing and all the testing during the beta, this never came up.  But now that real players are getting into it, some are making some super-sophisticated ships.  This is something that will be addressed in Friday's update.

  • In the Metaverse, some people are reporting weird ability values.  This has been fixed (initialization issue that's only present in the release compile).

  • On nVidia Geforce 6x series cards, the mouse cursor for some people disappears.  We don't have any idea on this as we can rarely get people to answer our questions on their systems (another gripe, some people seem to enjoy complaining more than solving their problem).  No idea what the cause it.  Our theory is either they're using the Omega drivers or something that doesn't support what we're doing OR they're using colored mouse cursors outside the game. 

  • The GNN has a "Goto" button that can mess up the UI if the player goes deep enough in it (it was intended for people who just wanted to jump to a planet, make an adjustment and leave but people who go to the planet and then go to a bunch of other places from the planet all from within the pop up manager can overload it).  We've fixed this already.

#6 Lessons learned?

  1. You can never be too prepared. Thank goodness we did the preload last week.  We never imagined the game using half a gibabit of bandwidth to bring down. Not a million years. We felt we had gone overkill on bandwidth and it was just barely enough.

  2. It is impossible to find every glitch.  We had gamma testers giving us the thumbs up weeks before we sent it to manufacturing. One suggested that we were having "separation" anxiety (i.e. being afraid to let it go out there).  Sometimes bugs exist simply because someone does something you never thought of. 

  3. Transparency is key.  Be open and honest with people and MOST people will respect that.  Tell people what problems you think you have and what problems you think you don't have and let people decide for themselves. Don't try to "control" the flow of information.  Stay ahead of the curve and make sure you are the one telling people what's going right and wrong.

 

68,895 views 49 replies
Reply #26 Top
I have problems too with the mouse, but I figured it out simple enough. Went to OPTIONS ==> VIDEO and clicked on HARDWARE MOUSE, and walla!! its fixed. I have NOT using colored mouse pointers outside the game, just the 3D White Mouse Pointer from windows XP.

My Comp:
AMD 2600
1gB ram
Audigy 2 zs
Windows XP sp2
Geforce 6800GT w/ 81.95 Drivers


Im updating to newer drivers 81.98 right now to see if theres a difference. Ill post later to tell you guyz.


Im out, Laterz

Monc34
Reply #27 Top
Transparency is key. Be open and honest with people and MOST people will respect that. Tell people what problems you think you have and what problems you think you don't have and let people decide for themselves. Don't try to "control" the flow of information. Stay ahead of the curve and make sure you are the one telling people what's going right and wrong.


I want to Stand Up, Salute, Shout Out Loud, and Say... THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU!

Honesty, how rare, refreshing, and precious... One more time... THANK YOU!



This should be posted, in every forum of every Game Company so they might finally get it as well. A boy can dream.




Reply #28 Top
i just want ot say from my previous comments , FRom what i see and read so far about GC2, its a great loooking game. The first one was great and I spent many hours and got lost in it trying to keep my butt from getting wipe out, exterminate. I wish I had it right now so i could play it. Everyone told me don't do electronic download, get the cd
that way you have a hard copy. I am doing what my heart tells me next time. Screw it Great going stardock keep it up and thanks for the effort you put into this game.
Reply #29 Top
I want to say that I've loved coming here and reading all these journals and forum posts from the folks at Stardock. It reminds me of the days back when Sierra and Infocom were still around and populated by people who love games, like talking with their customers, and are honest and open with them.

I usually don't care about pre-ordering games (in fact, I don't think I've *ever* pre-ordered a game before), figuring I'll just wait until the price drops a bit and all the patches are out and everything. But I'd gotten excited about this game, simply because *you* folks all seemed so excited about making it.

And I feel your pain about the tech support. Having been "blessed" by working in many offices full of technophobes, I never cease to be amazed by how many problems are caused simply because people fail to read the instructions. People always look at me like I'm a freak when I tell them I always read the manual.

Lack of patience is a problem too, as evidenced by the tech support exchange that was posted. Not that I haven't been guilty of that myself sometimes, but I usually try to take the time to read manuals/readmes and search for existing support articles and posts before I fire off e-mails or start new posts.

Peace & Luv, Liz
Reply #30 Top
While the public bug tracking system is a great idea, very few public bug tracking systems, IMO are actually worth a damn. The only one I've found with all the features I want is FogBugz. If you're looking to go down that road, I would highly recommend taking a look at that product.
Reply #31 Top
I have problems too with the mouse, but I figured it out simple enough. Went to OPTIONS ==> VIDEO and clicked on HARDWARE MOUSE, and walla!! its fixed. I have NOT using colored mouse pointers outside the game, just the 3D White Mouse Pointer from windows XP.


A couple of us had this problem with the beta (there're some posts floating around somewhere) and that was the fix that worked for it. From the people that had problems with it in the beta it was thought of to be an issue with Logitech mice - but now some people posting are saying its not just Logitech (and its not just located to GeForce).

If you have the issue, choose a hardware mouse and it'll be fine.
Reply #32 Top
Wow what a day, eh?

That's unbelievable bad (even though its true) about the 'persons' (hey no name calling even though I was thinking it)
who didn't update their drivers and didnt read all the posts. One they're a troll and/or two too immature or lazy.

Regarding the mouse - I had same issue. Here's my stats if that will help.

Windows XP Sp2, 1 Gb ram
Amd 1600
Nvidia FX 5200
SoundBlaster 24Bit Live

Btw, I also have Windowblinds 5 going along with some others Right click, Spring Folders, Keyboard Launchpad, and since it may be related yes Cursor XP cursor too. Should I stop using this stuff when I game ? Would that help or not make a difference? Thanks.




Reply #33 Top

Thanks for all your great responses guys!

With regards to the mouse cursor thing, it's a total mystery to us.  One theory we have is maybe it's people using say the Omega drivers or something.  We have a lot of nVidia cards here and we've not run into this and I can tell you a lot of time was spent trying to reproduce it.

We will track it down because frankly, you shouldn't have to use the hardware mouse cursor.  But it may take some time on that one.

I found another but that needs to be fixed:

You can select a custom map that doesn't have enough spots for all the players.

Reply #34 Top
Hey, Frogboy, don't despair. I do debugging of several big web apps with a lot of different customers and believe me: We all have been there. Anyway, you produced a great game, you released it very professionally and you're the most oben, up-front programmer I know. You did a great job! The only problem I had with the game was that ship design issue (I love building huge, fancy ships) but seeing that you're working on that already... This is a great game and a great community. Keep it up!

BTW, I make a point of updating my video drivers everytime before installing a new game and I'm using a laptop which makes it hard sometimes, but I once didn't do it and ran into problems because of it and I learned from that.
Reply #35 Top
My only problem was with the UI not showing the movies/multimedia/tutorials. Tuesday nite i noticed the download had only been 160 meg and i was curious. My poor dial-up connection has been on non-stop for 2 days. But now i have the game and all is good.
Though i still havent downloaded the tutorials - guess ill learn as i go

Reply #36 Top
Well, I hope my game will run with 2003 drivers. Simply because I have an obscure graphich card in there (ATI 9600+ for MEdion) . New ATI drivers from their website crash my computer instantly.

WEll, I will see and debug.
Reply #37 Top
Well, I hope my game will run with 2003 drivers. Simply because I have an obscure graphich card in there (ATI 9600+ for MEdion) . New ATI drivers from their website crash my computer instantly.

WEll, I will see and debug.
Reply #39 Top
Once again great support Stardockians. Your reaction to all the action on the forum has been great. Nice article too. It's unbelievable how lazy some people are. I'm a pr manager and I know that there are so many people who just don't READ. Sadly they have no time to read the readme and manual but they DO have time to post 60 of the same complaints an hour.

I've only experienced the shipyard bug myself. And some of the workarounds mentioned on the forums seem to work.

@Brad
I also DO think it has more to do with the save window hiding behind other windows than adding an abnormal amount of jewelry to your ship. Could be both of course, but not being able to save the ship is the problem people seem to be experiencing most.
Reply #40 Top
The cursor bug has be known with other games as well including Civ 4. I got the cursor bug once while playing Civ4 myself. I had to reboot but now have the mouse "shortcut" on my desktop just in case it happens again.
(That's so I can click the option of using the control key to reveal cursor location.)
Reply #41 Top
I think it is amazing how well you guys have done with this release.

I preloaded Monday night without any major problems. I did have to reinstall SDC before it would get the Movies, Music and Tutorials, but that was it. Tuesday just downloaded the final bits and it was up and running.

Great job again and thanks for being so open and honest with the community.
Reply #42 Top
Congratulations Stardock on a solid release of a great game! I'm well into my first game and haven't had any serious issues at all. I've lost a lot of productivitiy at work though, and I've only had the game for one day! I did have an odd glitch where I tried to use escape to back out of the tutorials menu and the game locked up, but I wasn't able to reproduce it so I'm not sure what that was all about. I'm surprised I didn't hit the glitch with too many parts on a ship, I've built a couple with so many bits chained on that its hard to tell what the original chassis was.

As someone else mentioned, maxing out your rediculous bandwidth is probably a good sign. I love the game so far and I really like your way of doing business and how you treat your customers, so I hope sales exceed all expectations. You've earned it.
Reply #43 Top
Another tech support/helpdesk person here... just wanted to chime in and say I can totally sympathize with having to deal with willfully ignorant users. Even getting paid to ONLY deal with people like that is enough to drive someone insane, so I can't even imagine what it's like to have to deal with it, along with fifty other things that come with developing and releasing a game.
the sad fact is, most people would rather complain than put in the effort required to figure out or find a solution, no matter how hard you work to make that solution as simple and easy to find as humanly possible.

Personally, I think you guys did an amazing job. Even the posts of user complaints that came up outside of the stickied threads usually got a response from someone at Stardock, and often before any other posters had a chance to respond. For being a small publisher/developer, you guys do a better job of helping users with problems than a lot of companies with 10X the money and employees.
It makes me wish I had taken more than that one C++ class in college. I like Michigan.
Reply #44 Top
I was glad I saw the Sticky on the multi-media, because I had ASSUMED that sownloading the main game would get the things below it. So when I went back and looked at S.C. after reading the sticky, I realized that I was in error. So I had to let that download for a while, and then everything was kosher.

Now I just need to get the pre-order stuff.

BTW: I will note that while MOST developers probably release what they beleive to be complete software, and simply the complexity of the program causes problems to show up (we find that too, it works great in testing until we put it in front of the masses, and then suddenly they find all the secret ways to mess things up!) But there are definitely software developers that will ship whether its finished or not, and only give token effort to fixing problems *cough*Atari*cough*.

These developers tend to be well known. And they also tend to suffer for their sins, or they learn to repent (Paradox for example revamped their QA process after taking a lot of heat over HoI1, and for HoI2 were almost falling over themselves to be helpful).
Reply #45 Top
Love you guys, what's been said in this thread I just nod my head over and over til it would fall off.... soooo leave the props at that !

I personally missed the multimedia the first time I predownloaded as well.I was concerned something was up with the 'game' was only 200 megs went back and hammered on it for about a min and figured it out... agreed, bad UI hehehe.

Release day, after 3 false starts, they final fiels loaded fast... I never once changed servers and it worked fine.

As for omega drivers, I use an ATI 6800 pro 128 with omega drivers and the games runs super smooth.

Have yet to actually sit down with the game still =/ work conspires against me!!!

Cheers!
-Liq
Reply #46 Top
Hi ya Stardockians

Well I just finish upgrading a friend of mine Computer with a Asus motherboard and athlon 64 fx60 processor and
a geoforce 7800 512k card with a fast serial drives in raid mod. He ask me what game shouold he get. I ask him
what he liked, space , turn based games, with graphics . I point him to your site and Galactic Civilizations 2 , he download it( i'm jealious). The games flys and well what can I say, I even more impress.........I going nuts , I should have purchased the electronic download. Shoot me now for my stupidy. This game is more impressive than the last.
I'll just go into a coma until mine arrvies/
Reply #47 Top
I havent played it yet due to my computer running out of hard drive space due to me choosing the wrong install directory, but I have been reading the manual at work, and I must say, I really enjoyed reading it. The quotes were great
Reply #48 Top
i haven't read all post but i want to tell to the dev that:

I think you do a realy great jobs. Some bug at the release for me (savegame 0k and creating a custom ship bug) but i can live with that. Normaly i don't buy a game at the release because they have normaly too much bug! (and even more if it's a EA games products ...)

But for Galciv2, it seem to have very few bugs for a so complex game. i buy the game online and download it with the Stardock central, it's work realy well, (it's impressed me)! i will probably buy other game(or add on ) with that system.

so Good job to the Dev team !

thank for this great game!
Reply #49 Top
nice article Brad. I did Operating System support for microsoft for two years. Some of the problems people have that are clearly user error and their inability to listen or follow instructions to solve their problems is truly maddening at times. Let's just say the dumb user jokes floating around out there can't hold a candle to some of the things I've had customers do and say. Thank god for Mute switches on our head sets so people wouldn't hear us laughing at them ..or swearing at them. It's one thing to not know something , it's another thing to be devoid of all common sense. common sense is in short supply these days it seems.