To the dubya neocon cheney apologists:

If was OK for Cheney to declassify the information regarding Plame, thereby "inviting" Scooter to share it with the press, then why OH WHY did they try to cover their tracks for so long? Why did that NYTimes reporter spend 8 months in jail? Why did they try to blame every single person under the sun for "leaking" the information?

Bullshit. It wasn't declassified. You guys are such a pile of neocon apologists, merely refusing to see what is right in front of your noses. Refusing to put 2 + 2 together to equal 4. You go out of your collective ways to invent scenarios wherein the dubya regime may look acceptable. Hate to break it to you, but they are not. Neither are you. Davad is absolutely correct in his (her?) assertion that it's OK for the Cheney/dubya dummies to leak. Then, they go after anyone who leaks other stuff, like dogs after a pound of raw beef to expose anyone who maybe, maybe they can take down to save their own asses. They sure failed this time. Cheey didn't "declassify" freakin' anything. He LEAKED the info, and that was highly illegal. If this is actually proven, then he will either have to step down, or be impeached.

I think the neocon cockroaches who are infesting the US government right now are going DOWN, down, down....... It ain't gonna be pretty, but it sure will be a beautiful thing. About friggin' time......................

Mmm, yes. Dabe, or whatever dabe clone this is, is soooo much more reliable in terms of legal understanding than a "Syracuse University law professor and expert on national-security law". I'm sure that whatever blurb you memorized at DU is much more trustworthy than real legal experience.

So please, mr. bakersmartypants, answer the freakin' questions:

1. Why did the NYTimes reporter spend 8 months in jail if this was merely "declassified" info?
2. Why did the neocons try to blame everyone, including Wilson and Plame, and engage in a discrediting venture if this was merely "declassified"?
3. Why did the neocons try every measure under the sun, including sending people to jail, and threatening to send people to jail, if this was merely "declassified"?

What these sleazeballs did was "declassify" the info after they couldn't cover their tracks anymore, when the facade started to come down, when they were becoming exposed without any clothes on. That's when they started the "declassification" discussion. Not before. Not when the story broke. Goddamm, mr. bakergenius, just add up 2+2. It ain't rocket science. These guys are sleazeballs, and you're a shameless apologist.

So please, mr. bakersmartypants, answer the freakin' questions: 1. Why did the NYTimes reporter spend 8 months in jail if this was merely "declassified" info? 2. Why did the neocons try to blame everyone, including Wilson and Plame, and engage in a discrediting venture if this was merely "declassified"? 3. Why did the neocons try every measure under the sun, including sending people to jail, and threatening to send people to jail, if this was merely "declassified"? What these sleazeballs did was "declassify" the info after they couldn't cover their tracks anymore, when the facade started to come down, when they were becoming exposed without any clothes on. That's when they started the "declassification" discussion. Not before. Not when the story broke. Goddamm, mr. bakergenius, just add up 2+2. It ain't rocket science. These guys are sleazeballs, and you're a shameless apologist.

Is there a gibberish translator in the house? I can't make head nor nail of that uber-babble you flung onto the screen during your latest spasmodic seizure. You should offer your posting style to hospital operating theatres as a highly-effective alternative to unconsciousness-inducing medications.

I don't know what makes you such a worthless poster, but it really works! I understand what you are trying to say, even though you obviously don't. If you knew what you're talking about, you'd be dangerous. As Ellen Glasgow once remarked: "He knows so little and knows it so fluently."

If that post was intended as a joke, you forgot to include the punch line. Why don't you close your mouth before someone sticks an apple in it? Maybe you wouldn't come across as such a jellyfish-sucking mental midget if didn't lack even the dim flicker of sentience needed to qualify as a imbecile; if your weren't so fat that the Brooklyn Bridge would collapse if you ever tried to go Bungee Jumping off of it, or if you didn't have a face so ugly that your mom had to get well-and-truly drunk before she could breast feed you. No, come to think of it, you would.

Anyway, I'm not really good with fools, but a friend who is good with fools wrote something down for me. Oh, yeah, "Shut your cake-hole, stupid!"

The problem with people like dog is that they start with "sleezeball" & work their reasoning, such as it is, back from there. Not commenting on you, davad. You & dog share very little in common.

So please, mr. bakersmartypants, answer the freakin' questions: 1. Why did the NYTimes reporter spend 8 months in jail if this was merely "declassified" info? 2. Why did the neocons try to blame everyone, including Wilson and Plame, and engage in a discrediting venture if this was merely "declassified"? 3. Why did the neocons try every measure under the sun, including sending people to jail, and threatening to send people to jail, if this was merely "declassified"? What these sleazeballs did was "declassify" the info after they couldn't cover their tracks anymore, when the facade started to come down, when they were becoming exposed without any clothes on. That's when they started the "declassification" discussion. Not before. Not when the story broke. Goddamm, mr. bakergenius, just add up 2+2. It ain't rocket science. These guys are sleazeballs, and you're a shameless apologist.

And dog, just a hint.....We "usually" don't answer questions from ignorant anonymous trolls. Just an FYI.....

Is there a gibberish translator in the house? blah blah blah blah...

what we're seeing here is the verbal equivalent of the results of someone giving a rifle to a stoneage tribe.

thanks a bunch lw.

Despite the anonymous troll's best attempts to spout pure crap and nonsense, they do bring up a semi-valid point.

If the information was properly declassified, why did all the stuff that happened, happen? Why did the reporter go to jail? Why did Bush say they'd go after whoever leaked the info (no, I don't have the exact quote, but I distinctly remember the White house taking a fairly hard-line attitude on the issue to punish whoever was responsible). Unless, like someone above said, this was some brilliant strategic move to distract the rabid anti-bush people from other more important issues, there's a bit of double-speak going on here.

It was a serious issue that required punishment a few months back... but now it's OK? On the left, we have those who tend to give Dems a free pass from any wrong-doing... could the same be happening here from those on the right?

Not all the facts are known yet, but just looking at the timeline of the whole issue, it certainly looks suspect.

First of all, I may be anonymous, but I'm not a troll. I do not argue for pure argument's sake. I don't just mix it up to set fires and provide fuel in a forum. I post if I feel there is a point to be made relevant to the original poster's point. As is this case. I feel that even though, quite frankly, I hate Bush and all that he stands for, and you may dislike me for that, but I did raise an interesting point. Thank you, Zoomba for acknowledging that.

If I was the reporter who was sent to jail over this (damn, her name eludes me....), I'd be screaming bloody murder. There is a miserable time line issue here, and it astounds me that you apologists would just rather turn a blind eye to this very major discrepancy in the neocon explanation.

My point stands. If you want to actually believe the info was "declassified" before it was leaked, then you're all fools. But then, I guess we already knew that.

#33 by Zoomba Monday, February 13, 2006

Not all the facts are known yet, but just looking at the timeline of the whole issue, it certainly looks suspect.

that's bakers and the rights point, we do NOT know the whole timeline, nor what powers were used or abused.

But to dabe and make no mistake dustydog is dabe anything the left does gets a 100% pass and anything the right does get a 100% conviction.

Not all the facts are known yet,

Exactly!  And until it is, we just have trolls.

Judith Miller's jail time had nothing to do with whether or not the information she was given was classified - she went to jail (contempt of court) for a journalistic principle she chose to defend, for refusing to name a confidential source, even though she'd been released to do so by the source. She has no reason whatsoever to "scream bloody murder."

You're mixing apples & oranges, not to mention convicting before the jury even hears the evidence.

37 by Daiwa Monday, February 13, 2006

Judith Miller's jail time had nothing to do with whether or not the information she was given was classified - she went to jail (contempt of court) for a journalistic principle she chose to defend, for refusing to name a confidential source, even though she'd been released to do so by the source. She has no reason whatsoever to "scream bloody murder."

again the truth that somehow blows by the lefties. Judith went to jail for not answering A question while under oath after being granted immunity thereby negating her 5th amendment rights.

Judith Miller's jail time had nothing to do with whether or not the information she was given was classified -

Damn! Daiwa! You just ruined his party!

I've addressed, several times, why they sat back and allowed all that to happen. They don't care if it happens. Nothing can be done to them, and all it accomplishes is Dems wasting their time on a wild goose chase, getting to the bottom of nothing. Bush can release what he likes, and in the end they'll pin everyone down, and they'll just say Bush signed off on it whether he did or not.

The woman went to jail because she refused to name her source. Other reporters have done the same without there being a Presidential scandal. People don't like to be bullied by sham partisan investigations.

Dems are taking the same misguided path they have always taken, assuming that smearing the President will somehow carry over to Republicans as a whole. It never works, Bush knows that, and with the Congressional elections this year nothing would make him happier than everyone thinking about him instead of Tom Delay.

My point stands. If you want to actually believe the info was "declassified" before it was leaked, then you're all fools. But then, I guess we already knew that.

See this just emphasizes my point. You say your not a troll. Ok, fine. Then "why" are you calling us fools? And the last sentence takes it over the top. And of course I see you avoiding the truth behind the whole thing. Valerie Plame was "not" a covert agent at the time of the incident! That's why they couldn't get Libby on that. Because it wasn't classified information.

That's why they couldn't get Libby on that. Because it wasn't classified information.

The fact that she may not have been covert doesn't necessarily mean the information Libby told the press was not classified.

And there's new information regarding whether she was covert or not;

Newsweek
Feb. 13, 2006 issue - Newly released court papers could put holes in the defense of Dick Cheney's former chief of staff, I. Lewis (Scooter) Libby, in the Valerie Plame leak case. Lawyers for Libby, and White House allies, have repeatedly questioned whether Plame, the wife of White House critic Joe Wilson, really had covert status when she was outed to the media in July 2003. But special prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald found that Plame had indeed done "covert work overseas" on counterproliferation matters in the past five years, and the CIA "was making specific efforts to conceal" her identity, according to newly released portions of a judge's opinion. Link

And there's new information regarding whether she was covert or not; Newsweek Feb. 13, 2006 issue - Newly released court papers could put holes in the defense of Dick Cheney's former chief of staff, I. Lewis (Scooter) Libby, in the Valerie Plame leak case. Lawyers for Libby, and White House allies, have repeatedly questioned whether Plame, the wife of White House critic Joe Wilson, really had covert status when she was outed to the media in July 2003. But special prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald found that Plame had indeed done "covert work overseas" on counterproliferation matters in the past five years, and the CIA "was making specific efforts to conceal" her identity, according to newly released portions of a judge's opinion. Link

Sorry but once again you miss the point. Libby is NOT under indictment for this. He is however under indictment for among other things "perjury". But NONE of his indictments come even close to leaking classified info. And when you read something, try to "finish" reading it "all" the way through! From your "linked article"....

Fitzgerald concluded he could not charge Libby for violating a 1982 law banning the outing of a covert CIA agent; apparently he lacked proof Libby was aware of her covert status when he talked about her three times with New York Times reporter Judith Miller

Which gives the story about the VP telling him to leak this info even "less" credibility. "If" he was told to "leak" it, he would have had to know about her covert status. Since Fitzgerald says Libby didn't know......(I'll leave it to your imagination to fill in the rest.)

If the white house, skooter libby, and dicky boy weren't playing such games with Plame's affairs, there would have been no reason for Judith Miller to go to jail. Sure, she went to jail to protect her source, but she is one of them, also. I'd bet dollars to donuts, though, that had she known she was being played for a fool, she never would have agreed to go to jail to protect her "source". And, none of you, except zoomba (keep asking the questions, zoomba), even ventured into the discussion about why the hell they didn't disclose that the information was declassified until AFTER Miller spent 8 months in jail, and until after they could no longer hide their games. You just apologize and rationalize and dismiss anything that remotely puts your dumb and dumber white house chumps in a bad light. Unbelievable.

Davad, these guys are fucking unbelievable.

Newsweek Feb. 13, 2006 issue - Newly released court papers could put holes in the defense of Dick Cheney's former chief of staff, I. Lewis (Scooter) Libby, in the Valerie Plame leak case. Lawyers for Libby, and White House allies, have repeatedly questioned whether Plame, the wife of White House critic Joe Wilson, really had covert status when she was outed to the media in July 2003. But special prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald found that Plame had indeed done "covert work overseas" on counterproliferation matters in the past five years, and the CIA "was making specific efforts to conceal" her identity, according to newly released portions of a judge's opinion

I guess Joe Wilson better get a lawyer then.  He was mouthing off at Washington Cocktail parties.  Oops!

Reply By: Dog under a dusty porch(Anonymous User)

Davad, in case you are wondering, this is Dabe.  She makes you look like a raving conservative, and has a trash mouth that would make George Carlin look like a saint.  You missed her by a couple of months.

"If the white house, skooter libby, and dicky boy weren't playing such games with Plame's affairs, there would have been no reason for Judith Miller to go to jail."

And if Wilson hadn't decided to sneak off to lie to the newspapers so he could cash in on his Niger trip and get a job in the Kerry campaign, they'd never have been discussing him to begin with.

Dabe just can't handle the fact that this is just a puppet show, and she's got someone's hand inserted in her posterior. This is just a big show so that Dems and Republicans can distract people from the mess that is Congress during the elections. Instead of having Dabe stirring up trouble that could cost seats, she's bashing an untouchable, lame duck Presidency.

Nice going, dabey wabey, you're the perfect tool.

The fact that she may not have been covert doesn't necessarily mean the information Libby told the press was not classified.

Her identity was the only possible classified information in question & the only thing alleged to have been leaked, davad - it indeed necessarily means that if she was not covert, her identity was not classified. Furthermore, even if she was considered covert at the time (technically or otherwise), revealing her name would be a criminal offense only if the revealer 1) knew her identity was classified and 2) revealed her name with intent to harm the US.

No one, certainly not Fitzgerald, has said there was any other information of any kind, aside from her identity, that was alleged to have been disclosed.

If the white house, skooter libby, and dicky boy weren't playing such games with Plame's affairs, there would have been no reason for Judith Miller to go to jail. Sure, she went to jail to protect her source, but she is one of them, also. I'd bet dollars to donuts, though, that had she known she was being played for a fool, she never would have agreed to go to jail to protect her "source". And, none of you, except zoomba (keep asking the questions, zoomba), even ventured into the discussion about why the hell they didn't disclose that the information was declassified until AFTER Miller spent 8 months in jail, and until after they could no longer hide their games. You just apologize and rationalize and dismiss anything that remotely puts your dumb and dumber white house chumps in a bad light. Unbelievable.

dabe proves that dogs can't read.

Miller was not "played for a fool" (what kind of lame-ass feminist are you, anyway, dabe?) and she never "agreed" to go to jail - she was given written permission to disclose her source's identity long before she went to jail, by Libby. She was in complete control of her own decisions.

As for the question "...why the hell they didn't disclose that the information was declassified until AFTER Miller spent 8 months in jail...?", I answered it once but here's the answer again, along with a bonus answer:

1) Whether the information was classified or not had nothing to do with her contempt citation or her jail sentence. Nothing whatsoever, so it didn't matter diddleysquat when or if it was ever disclosed.

2) We don't know, especially as regards the timing of the disclosure.