FISA Court Knew About NSA Program

And they doubted it's legality.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060209/bs_nm/security_eavesdropping_court_dc
Two presiding judges were made aware of the NSA Surveillance Program twice within the last 4 years by the Justice Department. Both of the judges apparently had serious misgivings about the legality of the program. They went so far as to tell DOJ that no evidence obtained through the program could be used as a basis to obtain a warrant from the court.

Of course that didn't stop DOJ from slipping one past them after they had been told not to use this information;

U.S. District Judge Colleen Kollar-Kotelly, and her predecessor as presiding judge, Royce Lamberth, had expressed serious doubts about whether the warrantless monitoring of telephone phone calls and e-mails ordered by Bush was legal.

The new report reveals the depth of their doubts and their efforts to protect the court from what they considered potentially tainted evidence, the newspaper said.

James Baker, a top lawyer in the Justice Department's Office of Intelligence Policy and Review, alerted Kollar-Kotelly in 2004 that the government's failure to share information about the domestic spying program had rendered useless a screening system that the judges had insisted upon to shield the court from tainted information, the Post said.

Kollar-Kotelly complained to Justice, prompting a temporary suspension of the NSA spying program, the newspaper said, citing sources.

In 2005, Baker learned that at least one government application for a FISA warrant probably contained NSA information and that was not made clear to the judges, the newspaper said.



Here are some of the things I don't understand about the administration's and supporters of this program claim that this is legal;

I've heard a lot of talk around here about how the President doesn't have to obey any laws that "restrict his constitutional authority to wage war". I've also heard the terms "spy", "foreign agent", and "foreign enemy" used to describe the targets of the surveillance.

If it is true that any law that attempts to restrict his power to wage war are unconstitutional, then the entire FISA court is unconstitutional. Therefore, why is the Justice Dept and the FBI consulting with FISA at all?

Similarly, why did they go through the trouble of altering FISA, (through the Patriot Act)an unconstitutional law, while they were in the middle of a war?

If these people are truly spies or foreign enemies, then (according to some here) we are not obligated to utilize the court/legal system at all. So again, why are they bothering to ever go through this extremely arduous (they claim) process?

3,126 views 7 replies
Reply #1 Top
If it is true that any law that attempts to restrict his power to wage war are unconstitutional, then the entire FISA court is unconstitutional.


first of all, you're too narrowly qualifying the question with that 'to wage war' thing. secondly, you seem to be confusing the fisa court with the constitution.

your sentence could more accurately address the situation with just a couple quick edits. ergo:

If it is true that any law that attempts to restrict his power is unconstitutional, then the entire constitution is unconstitutional.

after all, if was good enuff for the kingdom of texas--and it was--it's damn sure good enuff for the rest of the dadgum country.
Reply #2 Top
What I wonder with this is, if the FISA court questioned the legality of the actions then, why didn't they merely cite their caselaw, and rule on the case accordingly. If they are a legitimate court, with the authority to issue or deny warrants, they should act instead of sit around whining.
Reply #3 Top
What I wonder with this is, if the FISA court questioned the legality of the actions then, why didn't they merely cite their caselaw, and rule on the case accordingly. If they are a legitimate court, with the authority to issue or deny warrants, they should act instead of sit around whining.


I haven't seen anything that said there was an actual case in questionby FISA in which information was used that originated from the NSA program. There is the one case that Baker suggests used the NSA info, but he said they didn't tell FISA that their intel came from there.
Reply #4 Top
The issue needs to be brought before the Supreme Court.
Reply #5 Top
I am curious as to why Col is the only one who thinks this should be taken to the Supreme Court. Is that a legit idea? Can it be done? If so why does no one else here say anything about it as well? Just curious that no one but Col mentions the Supreme Court.
Reply #6 Top
I don't see a reason why it couldn't. However if they ruled in favor of Bush, they would just say it's Alitos fault.
Reply #7 Top
I believe a case must be brought before a Federal Court possibly an injunction to stop the NSA program without going through the FISA Court. That way Bush would still be able to conduct necessary surveillance by using the 1978 law. The Supreme Court can not rule on things without a case. However since this is a legal question, I do not see how more hearings in Congress can properly deal with the issue.