The "Problem" with Illegal Immigration

First of all, immigrants do not have a "right" to become Americans.

"exclaim that we must cast out all our illegal neighbors and unify (read: homogenize) our state"

That's right. What kind of example are we setting if we let people who BREAK THE LAW of the land, then become a citizen of the land? That makes no sense. Illegals are LAW BREAKERS, period.

You think because the immigration process is bogus, that is justification for breaking the law? You say they "can't come any other way" (that's legal). That's bull. You said you spoke to LEGAL immigrants. If its not possible then how did they get to be legal?


"I have a friend from South Africa. His whole family, except for his nineteen-year-old sister, is here in the states, but for some reason, the immigration offices deny her a visa every time she applies. Thus, she can't live with her family and enjoy the "life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness" that she shoud be allowed. This system needs a serious overhaul, but until then, I'm going to support illegal immigration."

Maybe she should apply all that energy to improving her OWN country. Maybe if people stopped leaving their countries and flocking to ours, they would be forced to do something to change their own country. It takes blood and sacrifice though, and why should they bother with that right? When they can just break a few American laws then come leech off us, INSTANT gratification.

I have no sympathy for illegal aliens. Sorry.

Having a better life sometimes means you have to FIGHT for it. Stay in YOUR country and do the work to change things. Don't mooch off a country who already bled for it.

For the most part I agree with Tova.  Breaking the law is not the way to go about making a point.  I will concede your point and agree with you that we do need to revamp the whole immigration process and make it easier.  However, we need to do that after fixing the Illegal problem.  If we can fix that, then I think there will be a lot more space for legal immigrants and easing the conditions would certainly be warranted.

Another thing.

This article reeks of "right of entitlement."

People from other countries have no right to American entitlements. They can ask, and we can refuse or grant based on our rule of law.

Get over it.

the problem is that nobody seems willing to do anything to change anything. I don't understand why we should deprive these people the rights that we have. The only reason the majority of us have the "American entitlements" we enjoy is because we were born in this country! It's not like most of us did anything to be given these rights, we just were conceived in the right uterus at the right time in the right place! Why should we deny others because they didn't have the benefits of an American uterus to give birth to them?
Tova: What have you done to secure these rights for anyone? What blood have you let to be given these rights?

The only reason the majority of us have the "American entitlements" we enjoy is because we were born in this country!

Sometimes it is an accident of Birth.  But a country must maintain its laws and borders, or else it is just a jungle with no reason to exist.  You could just as easily say why do we deprive the billion plus chinese of our rights.  And the answer is the same.  They were not born here.

"Sometimes it is an accident of birth." That's a good point, Dr. Guy, but it doesn't change the fact that we need to find a way to make those who are here legal and make the immigration situation easier to navigate and survive. I really don't expect anyone to truly understand the situation until they see it from the other point of view. Until you've spent time among illegal immigrants, seen their efforts to enter this country (for their children's sake), I really can't expect you to see it the way I do.

Until you've spent time among illegal immigrants, seen their efforts to enter this country (for their children's sake), I really can't expect you to see it the way I do.

What makes you think that I have not?

Until you've spent time among illegal immigrants, seen their efforts to enter this country (for their children's sake), I really can't expect you to see it the way I do.

The thing is, you are under the assumption that he hasn't spent time with them.

I have spent time with many illegal immigrants. We have 20 or 30 in our church every Sunday. I care about them, and sympathize with their situations in Mexico, but I still do NOT sympathize with them coming here illegally. I know why they did it, but I still don't agree with it, and I would support any law (even down to closing our borders completely) that would stop illegal immigration.

I have plenty of experience with illegal and legal immigrants. I lived in Mian for 8 years and met many cubans both legal and illegal. I feel very little sympathy for the illegals. Even though I feel bad for their situation, I can't stand the idea that while I, being an American citizen, have to stuggle to make a living, they get all kinds of money from the Gov't and eventually end up getting houses, good cars and good jobs. I know cause I saw it happen over and over and over.

I say if you are here illegal you are a criminal and we can't ignore our own laws because of our feelings. I'm sorry but that's just how I see it. I was born here in the states of Puertorican family, Puertoricans are the only latin people who are considered American citizens whether you were born in the US or Puerto Rico and they don't even appreciate what they have. Those born in Puerto Rico (sorry mom) should have their citizenship removed because they don't deserve it. Bunch of ingrates, they get all kinds of money from the US and all they know how to do is complain about the US and criticize Americans, even me.

If we are going to cut back illegal immigration, we need to start hitting the businesses that hire illegals with huge fines. If they could not find work here, they would not keep coming. The businesses are addicted to the cheap labor they can get from illegals. Obviously the penalties aren't severe enough or they wouldn't continue to hire illegal workers. It is much easier to target businesses that have something to lose and are established here than to track down millions of illegal immigrants.

That being said I don't believe in breaking the law but I wonder how many of the citizens who are now up in arms about illegal immigration had ancestors who came here illegally. A few generations ago, it wasn't mexicans it was irish or italians, wop stands for without papers, etc.

The new collosus - on the statue of liberty - i know we can blame the French

give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teaming shores, send these the homeless tempest tossed to me, I life my lamp beside the golden door.

I don't understand why we should deprive these people the rights that we have.

We don't deprive them of anything, as long as they enter this country legally. What I don't understand is why do you believe that we should just let them in just because they don't like their country. Why don't they try to improve their own country rather than go somewhere else? I personally consider a person or persons who, in order to give themselves and their families a better life, breaks the laws of border crossing a selfish person or persons because they do not care of those who stay behind cause crossing will not fix their problem back home.

The only reason the majority of us have the "American entitlements" we enjoy is because we were born in this country! It's not like most of us did anything to be given these rights, we just were conceived in the right uterus at the right time in the right place!

And what makes you think we have't done anything? What about all those people who work and pay taxes? What about those who open shops and provide services? What about those who become fire fighters, police officers, soldiers, doctors, nurses, who risk their lives for others? Not to mention that the law gives them the right simply because they were born here and did not have to earn it, do you believe that law should be changed?

Tova: What have you done to secure these rights for anyone? What blood have you let to be given these rights?/quote] You do not have the right to question Tova in that sense. It is not up to you to decide who has rights and who doesn't (thank God). Those are unfair questions and you should take them back. really don't expect anyone to truly understand the situation until they see it from the other point of view. Until you've spent time among illegal immigrants, seen their efforts to enter this country (for their children's sake), I really can't expect you to see it the way I do.

So you believe you are the only person in the world who has spent time with them? What world do you live in, I have spent plenty of time with them and it does not change the fact that not liking the lifestyle of you country is not an excuse to break the law. I can understand that becoming a legal resident may not be easy but just imagen if every Mexican, Cuban, Chinese, Iraqi, Domincan, etc., had the ability to come to the USA and become a legal citizen over night? I mean if you wanna talk simple than over night is just about as simple as it can get. That would be insane, talk about being overpopulated.

Gotta break with you here 100% man.

And I say this as someone who has spent plenty of time with both legal and illegal immigrants, as well as someone who has actually seen it from the real other side: outside the country watching people bust their balls to find a way to illegally mooch off the US government.

I don't disagree that something needs to be done to immigration law. But at the same time, in a country of finite resources (including housing, jobs, etc.) I can't support a proposition to take those resources from those who were born here and are toiling away here and give it to someone else who happened to jump the border.

It's not like most of us did anything to be given these rights, we just were conceived in the right uterus at the right time in the right place! Why should we deny others because they didn't have the benefits of an American uterus to give birth to them?

So now you would damn us all because we were born in the US? That seems ridiculous. Because I know you like I do, let me use an example.

You (and I) have received countless blessings in you life because you were born in a Mormon uterus. Your faith was handed to you on a silver platter from the moment you were born. Now, that doesn't mean you haven't worked to make that faith your own, because I know you have. But you were born into it in the first place, just like you were born into America. I mean, what next? Following this line of logic, you would advocate stealing money from wealthy families, since many of them were just born into it.

What have you done to secure these rights for anyone? What blood have you let to be given these rights?

Heh. I ask you the same questions. What have you done?

I really don't expect anyone to truly understand the situation until they see it from the other point of view. Until you've spent time among illegal immigrants, seen their efforts to enter this country (for their children's sake), I really can't expect you to see it the way I do.

Careful there. Don't assume. You know what happens. I bet you there are many here who have spent more time than you among illegal immigrants who would still disagree with ya.

Honestly, if many of these people would expend the time and energy they do in getting into the US illegally on working to improve their own countries, perhaps the world would be a better place. There is a reason the LDS Church's perpetual education fund isn't to help people move to the US. It is to help them improve their own lives in the country of their birth, building stronger leaders and communities there, rather than having them come running to the arms of the US.

Why should we deny others because they didn't have the benefits of an American uterus to give birth to them?Tova: What have you done to secure these rights for anyone? What blood have you let to be given these rights?

Deny them? We're not denying them ANYTHING. Their own countries are doing that. If they want what we have...work for it, earn it, CHANGE things.

As for what I have given....let me see. I was born American. And that's good enough. But I can do even better. I served 4 years in the US Air Force. My husband fought in Desert Storm. I PAY TAXES. I vote. I OBEY THE FRIGGIN LAW.

The men in my family have been involved in, maimed or killed, in every war this country has had since the Civil war.

Is that good enough for you? Not that it matters. I am an American by birth, I do not BECAUSE OF MY BIRTH owe any other country's citizens ANYTHING.

That being said I don't believe in breaking the law but I wonder how many of the citizens who are now up in arms about illegal immigration had ancestors who came here illegally. A few generations ago, it wasn't mexicans it was irish or italians, wop stands for without papers, etc.

Sorry Mama...the people you reference were brought here legally. They made the journey and even the gov gave some of them land...100 acres and a mule to help settle this country.

Big difference.

Sorry Mama...the people you reference were brought here legally. They made the journey and even the gov gave some of them land...100 acres and a mule to help settle this country. Big difference.

Some were illegal.  The immigration problem was not always just Mexican and latin America.  However a great many were legal.  Still, the reference to WOP is correct.  WOP = Without Papers.  I.e. Illegal.

My bad mama, I misread that.

Sorry.

Since when do we have the right to do something illegal? Lots of people move here legally. This is like saying sexual harrassment should be a right under the "Pursuit of happiness" clause. There are ways to better your life, even come to America, without breaking the law.

For anyone who has stated that breaking the law is not the appropriate way to make a point, bear in mind that Martin Luther King, Jr broke many laws in his time, yet I doubt anyone here would say he was wrong.

I'm not trying to say that immigration laws are improper, but if you were trying to immigrate, and felt that the laws preventing you from doing so were unjust, what's the better alternative: break the law and come here illegally or start a war to try to force the US to let people in. Granted the latter is fairly outside the realm of feasibility, at present.

If there is an unjustness in our immigration laws however, that is unfairly excluding certain immigrants, then that should be addressed.

Honestly, I don't know enough about the situation to make a judgement, though, so I won't.

Thank you everybody, for your comments. Thanks especially to Demosthenes, who I think said it best: "For anyone who has stated that breaking the law is not the appropriate way to make a point, bear in mind that Martin Luther King, Jr broke many laws in his time, yet I doubt anyone here would say he was wrong."
I won't lie, when I wrote this article this morning I was in a pissy mood, I was sick, and I had just heard from a friend of mine that has been trying to come over here to go to school for over a year now. They won't give him a study visa, even though the school has accepted his application and he has, believe me, paid his dues.
I'm surprised at the reaction that this article received. You've all said some very serious stuff; you've all got me thinking.
I'm not a supporter of out-and-out law breaking. You all need to know that, but I am familiar with the messy situation immigration has become, and I wish there was something we could do to change it. As it is, I think a little more tolerance on the part of everyone, myself included, would be the best solution until somebody can change something. And as long as my congressman won't listen to me, there's not a whole lot else I can do . . .

One last thing to think about.  When the Titanic sank, 1500 people lost their lives.  Those 1500 could have tried to crowd into the few life boats, but then those life boats would  have sunk as well, and the death toll would have been a lot higher.

We cannot overload the lifeboat. Or we will all drown.

For anyone who has stated that breaking the law is not the appropriate way to make a point, bear in mind that Martin Luther King, Jr broke many laws in his time, yet I doubt anyone here would say he was wrong.

I'm not 100% on this. You see, King Jr broke laws because he wanted to make this country a better place. He did it for a better future for black, poor and those who society forget exist. He did not do it for self benefit. It's not the same as crossing into a country illegally simply because the legal way is either too long or won't give you passage. As I stated before, it is selfish to illegally leave your country and enter another simply to better your life while giving grief to others and forgetting those you leave behind who deserve that better life as much as you. King Jr was not selfish.

My problem is the villifying of illegal immigrants but not the business owners who hire them. They are breaking the law too but no one seems to care about that.

Sorry San Chonino, I have to disagree with you here.

Yes, the legal immigration system is screwed up and full of horror stories. However, that is a reason to change the laws, not pat criminals on the head and say, "it's ok, we didn't mean to exclude you".

The fact is, for many states (including Utah), illegal immigrants are a drain of assets. They keep the pay rate in the area artificially low (when so many are willing to do the job for minimum wage, no unskilled worker can expect any better), they use medical facilities without having to pay into the system (do you realize how many hospitals have gone bankrupt in areas where illegal immigration is a "problem"?

When I ran ambulance in Milwaukee, we picked up a lot of illegal immigrants. By law, we weren't allowed to report them. We also knew they weren't going to be able to pay. So, apparently our ambulance service was just supposed to do our civic duty and suck up whatever expenses were incured by enjoying the pleasure of their company.

Gangs like MS-13 are making millions from people smuggling. They aren't "helping" these people across the border for free. When you support illegal immigrants you are directly supporting MS-13.

Finally, with the "civil disobedience" defense. When people like Martin Luther King, Rosa Parks and others decided to choose civil disobedience, they were also mature enough to accept the consequences of their actions. Yes, civil disobedience is a legitimate way to express your grievance with society, but it doesn't come with a "get out of jail free card". Anyone who knowingly breaks the law to make their point, then whines and cries that they might actually have to pay the price for their crimes, is only whining.

Illegal immigration is no less a "problem" and drain on our society as any other organized crime....

and yes, we should be going after those who hire illegal aliens also. Right now the attitude is, "don't ask, don't tell", which is ok since a person who can produce the necessary documentation should be able to get a job. However, the other side of "don't ask, don't tell" is, if an employer finds out a worker IS illegal, they knowingly commit a crime if they just let it go.

But it was his dream to see it happen, so it was self interest that motivated him to pursue that change. The self interest to see his aspirations come to fruition.

I'm not trying to equate the two acts in entirety, just draw a corollary to show that just breaking a law does not necessarily make your opinion moot.


Dr Guy makes a good point as well, which is why I said that I didn't think that it's improper to have laws governing immigration. I just wonder how well they are set up. But again, as I said earlier, I don't know it well enough to form an opinion.