Solnac

Join Date 12/2004

The Democratic Party: Would You Like To Use Cash Or Credit?

MoveOn.Org: We Paid For It, It Should Be Ours, Not The Corporations.

The Republicans aren't the only ones who were dealt brutal setbacks this week...the Democrats seem to have a battle from within. Is it time to replace insiders with deals with corporations and make it the 'people's party?' The DNC chairmanship is coming up and there's a huge call for removing insiders.

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I really have no problem with, and am ease with the Democratic party being run by people who deal with grass roots, more of you and me situation, however, I think three things need to be insured to happen to make sure the Democrats aren't cutting off their nose to spite their face:

1) The Democrats need to still have contact with corporate contributors. A lot of the grass roots money may have been backlash against a very polarizing candidate on the opposition. Against a more moderate candidate with greater appeal, they might acutally lose a considerable about of money trying to pander to grass roots. Since American elections are somewhat about how much money you spend, you don't want to come to three legged race with all four legs tied together. Ensure that you've got all your bases covered.

2) A PAC, like MoveOn.org, while engaging and interesting enough, shouldn't be running the party by defacto either. You need someone who will head the party in a progressive way, support elections (even branch out a little, for crying out loud. We've been winning only in the same states for YEARS) and seem moderate enough to ensure that the party isn't being run by a whole bunch of liberal wackos. MoveOn is seen as much too liberal to be the support for a major political party in the current system, I think.

3) I call this the Jimmy Carter issue. Don't get me wrong, the guy's probably the nicest, most moral, practically saint like ex-president we've ever had. But the one year everyone chose a Washington outsider for President, it bit us in the ass. Now, imagine if we chose a virtual outsider for the party. You silently pull the strings behind the puppet show, and you've got no bloody clue how Washington works? That's a problem.

To sum up, we need someone who will be willing to be progressive enough to try blending a burgeoning grass roots campaign and still deal with the reality of corporations being some of the bigger funders out there; we need someone who can run a party, convincing Americans every dollar and moment in time they give is important (and it is), and someone who might be willing to experiment with extending out the base of the Democratic party, but seem centerist enough to make it sound the party's not lost their bloody mind. ....And Dean? The man can't keep his temper. If he's not too busy begging off folks, taking a nomination for UN Secretary General, or 'not having sexual relations' with women, why the hell aren't we nominating Bill Clinton? The man's a brilliant politican, and virtually indestructable to boot. Plus, being an ex-president, he has access like no one's business. So why the hell not?

Wondering about his party, the wolf dragon/AWM,

Sol

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Moveon was the fodder for most of the right's ammunition that the Democrats were too far left. Here's to hoping they implode and allow us a chance to win next time.

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and Dean? The man can't keep his temper.

I met Dean when he campaigned in St. Louis, MO and followed his campaign before his defeat in the primary. What evidence do you have to support the idea that he is some angry man who can't control his temper?

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kingbee

Join Date 04/2004

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im very uncomfortable with either party selling out to institutional investors (im willing to expand the scope to include entities other than businesses...and 'contributors' is inaccurate when there's a quid pro quo involved). having said that, i dont believe moveon.org controls the democrats any more than swiftboatvets controls the republicans--the problem arises when it's the other way around and they provide a fifth column.

the democrats at the wheel could do worse than to focus on richard viguerie, karl rove and other republican strategists/operatives with career roots in the direct mail advertising industry who use skills and techniques they developed there to the distinct advantage of their party.

one more thought: call me paranoid, but could there be more than just altruism motivating republicans who've been so generously offering unsolicited advice and analysis purporting to help democrats correct the error of their elitist, outta touch ways?

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I attempt to read as much as possible on how my party is doing, and in doing so I run across a great deal of material that demostrates the position we have placed ourselves. There is an article on Slate.com titled: "Feel-Good Politics - The therapeutic activism of MoveOn.org." This is something I feel all liberals and democrates need to read. It really lays out the problems we are having within the party. Moveon.org is really not the voice I want out there for the Democratic Party.

And, as to Clinton becoming Sec Gen of the United Nations do you really believe that will happen????????? Not in our life time; unless of course his wife becomes President, albeit do you think that could happen also (she at this point has by vote, however the Dems might get some stud to run, and you what that means to us woman voters. . . ).

Pam

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Reply #3 By: Deference - 12/11/2004 7:10:12 PM
and Dean? The man can't keep his temper.

I met Dean when he campaigned in St. Louis, MO and followed his campaign before his defeat in the primary. What evidence do you have to support the idea that he is some angry man who can't control his temper

How about the scream on national TV?

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one more thought: call me paranoid, but could there be more than just altruism motivating republicans who've been so generously offering unsolicited advice and analysis purporting to help democrats correct the error of their elitist, outta touch ways?

by suggesting that their ways are elitist and out of touch, they have added ammunition.

I think the Democratic party needs to pull together. If you are running against the Democrats you are running against all the Democrats. For example, I went to a Kerry speech here in Cedar Rapids, Iowa. The only people who were invited to speak ahead of him weren't even running. We had a candidate for the House that was just introduced shortly and various candidates running for the statehouse who only got to raise their hands and say hi. Most people didn't even know who they were. There was a candidate for the US Senate that wasn't even introduced at all. Kerry did very well here, but the other candidates were unknowns. Kerry could have used his pulpit to raise them up. Candidates who are actually running would be more energized.

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If Moveon thinks that they had more of an influence on this election then the DNC, it is fooling itself alone. In My Opinion the only way they influence this election was to motivate the RNC base. For every one liberal minded person Moveon energized to vote, they got two conservative voters to show up to the polls.

Moveon calls themselves grass roots, but they fail to remember the money that built and drives the core of the organization comes from Daddy wore buck Soros and celebrities like Susan Serandian. With the new finance reforms caps on campaigns Moveon have received more Corporate money then the DNC.

I had heard that Moveon was conducting strategy meetings to lay out their next move, but I never believed they would go as far as ordering the DNC to Vote Dean into the DNC chair. While I think the DNC is open to changes this time around, I am sure that giving into the demands of Washington outsiders will be the last thing on their minds. Just as Deans yell tanked him in the running for President, this stunt may have tanked any chance of him getting the DNC chair (or anymore support from the DNC ever again).

Moveon may do better by just starting their own party. I really think they could get some traction be doing so. Right now the only thing they are doing is splattering mud all over the place at a time that the DNC needs to lay low and rebuild.

That’s My Two Cents

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And, as to Clinton becoming Sec Gen of the United Nations do you really believe that will happen?????????

Nah, but it's been conjecture enough. I was being slightly teasing there.

I saw that one coming if you did not, Deference, call me psychic. I wasn't going to say that, but I was going to say that certainly was the potrayal he has, like it or not.

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