DoW II: Free content for paying customers, no *stupid* DRM

More studios getting it!

By on January 9, 2009 10:15:20 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Serik55

Join Date 12/2008
+4

http://www.strategyinformer.com/pc/warhammer40000dawnofwarii/interview.htm

Strategy Informer: Now this is a standard question that we always ask, but what do you have lined up in terms of expansion packs and DLC?

Jonny Ebbert: We have a lot of seriously exciting plans for DLC. We really want to give our players a top-notch online experience and we want to reward our players for playing our game. We want to give out steady doses of free downloadable content because we believe in rewarding people who buy the game and the reason we don’t like DRM solutions is because they punish the innocent and they have to jump through all these hoops. We don’t want to do that so we’re going with the approach that Valve pioneered to just reward the people who actually bought the game with cool stuff. Free downloadable, regularly accessible stuff that enhances the game and then that’s an incentive for the people who didn’t buy the game to buy it. So we’ve got a really bold, robust strategy for that and we’re going to be revealing more details in about a month, but I think players are going to like it. And everybody wins you know? The people who paid for the game don’t have to go through any fuss and they’re constantly getting new stuff, which keeps the game fresh.

(Don't forget about Stardock )

Anyway, I really support this approach. Encourage people to buy your game with free updates. Digital distribution is really cool because people who read about all these free updates can go and buy the game within a few minutes. With unlimited inventory and zero reliance on retail shelf space, devs can keep their games alive for many years (see GalCiv2). Hooray for our digital distribution overlords!

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January 12, 2009 3:13:47 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Glad another company came out and announced they recognize DRM doesn't actually do anything but punish their paying customers.  Hey EA, how many people pirated Spore?  Oh, that's right more than probably another other game in history.  Purely out of spite for the most part, as it certainly didn't sound like a fantastic game from the reviews.

 

Anyhow, I generally like Relic though I'm upset they removed LAN play from the CoH expansion.  Their Relic Online system isn't very good and drops people constantly.  I'd like another option to play it multiplayer, but there isn't one.  However I like their stand-alone expansion concept, and they try to avoid annoying cd-checks (note to developers still doing this: it is the weakest form of copy protection and it just pisses people off as today's large hard drives mean people may have dozens of different games they certainly don't want to put in the disc for).  It's nice that people who bought the original can still play with others rather than split the community.  Even though realistically anyone who bought an expansion for DoW or CoH probably owned the original anyway.

 

Sadly, I can't say I'm looking forward to DoW2 though.  It smacks too much of Warcraft 3, which I hated due to your hero being more important that your entire army.  I liked the commanders in DoW 1 as they were useful units, but not so important that you were screwed if your commander died early on in a battle.  The emphasis on your commander in DoW 2 doesn't bode well.  They also cut the number of units per faction from DoW 1, which seems like it will limit variety.  For example, according to interviews/previews, Eldar only have rangers, guardians, banshees and warp spiders for infantry.  What is this, Warcraft 2?  Didn't they learn their lesson from the British in CoH?  Having limited unit choices makes for boring gameplay.

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January 12, 2009 3:20:24 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Campaigner,

Quoting Nights Edge,
reply 23
The idea of the first Dawn of War was to keep base building minimal in order to concentrate on the fighting. Dawn of War 2 is simply taking that concept to its logical conclusion.

*****************************************************

DoW 2 combines the best from DoW and CoH, and man does it look cool!     Me likes to smaash! 

Well, seeing as DoW II is going to be run on the CoH engine, I would expect it to have the feel and playability of CoH, only with the background and storyline of DoW.  Oh, and don't forget the graphix as well.  It's gonna be damn gorgeous.  Thank God I own Soulstorm.

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January 12, 2009 3:38:30 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Thank God I own Soulstorm

You are the first and probably only person on Earth to say this.  Hopefully Relic learned a valuable lesson about letting other companies make their expansions from that mess.  Thank goodness I listened to the boards first instead of blindly buying it.

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January 12, 2009 3:53:07 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Only saying it cause now I get the beta 7 days earlier.

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January 12, 2009 4:33:07 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Thank God I own Soulstorm. Because i have really enjoyed it as a game since day 1 (no MP for me helped too... as Adeptas Sororitas are my fav army). A pity the bugs, that fliers are not so useful and that all comes down to Ironlore's situation (that was closed even before Soulstorm was released, go figure).*

Oh, i get 7 extra Beta days just because i bought Soulstorm? Cool! That means like 30 less days without nothing to do until Elemental's beta starts.

 

* Just letting you all know that i seem to be one of those "few" that enjoyed Soulstorm.

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January 12, 2009 4:43:48 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Thrawn2787,
Hate to break this to you Luckmann and Jagged but this game makes alot more sense fluff wise than DoW ever did

EDIT: It's not like DoW gameplay wise, but it is still a sequil...

I agree that this game MAY make a lot more sense fluff-wise than DoW ever did, but games overall rarely make sense fluff-wise when it comes to actual game mechanics. But that's not what I'm arguing.

It's just like you say, it's not like DoW gameplay-wise, but it's still a sequel. What I'm arguing is that it shouldn't be considered a sequel, since there's really not much DoW about it, except the setting.

A loose comparison I'd like to make is that it'd be like naming World of Warcraft Warcraft IV, just because they share the same setting. While it'd be entirely within ActiBlizz' right to do so, it doesn't mean that it'd make sense or be a logical progression.

Quoting Nights Edge,
The idea of the first Dawn of War was to keep base building minimal in order to concentrate on the fighting. Dawn of War 2 is simply taking that concept to its logical conclusion.
Yes, they kept it minimal. But it's not it's logical conclusion to remove it. If it was, they could've done that in DoW already, similar to games like Ground Control II. Keeping something minimal can be a conclusion in itself.
Quoting Heavenfall,
How is it not like DoW? I just assumed it was.
Well, the first major thing that's going to hit you is that it's got zero base building or in-mission unit recruitment. You make do with what you have.

For those of us that liked hunting down the multitude of enemy bases, as your opponent ran away from you and constructed anew elsewhere (or similar situations) just to pick fighting up again, or long, endless fights with frantic, desperate reinforcements as both sides were trying to stave off what seemed inevitable (sometimes several sides at once, depending on map and players), those two things alone goes a very long way.

It's very real core mechanics that have been changed. Some will of course like these changes, but I'd nonetheless never call it an actual sequel or concede that it should be called DoW2 - even if I understand the reasons behind their choice to do so (out-of-the-loop fans of the series that think that it's another DoW, possible licensing issues, etc).

Quoting lbgsloan,
You are the first and probably only person on Earth to say this.  Hopefully Relic learned a valuable lesson about letting other companies make their expansions from that mess.  Thank goodness I listened to the boards first instead of blindly buying it.
I absolutely love Soulstorm, and it's a real shame and pity that the company went belly-up before balance issues and bugs were patched out. There are a lot of people that can't fathom playing DoW without Soulstorm, me included.

Dark Eldar is, by far, my favourite army in DoW. There's so many ways to win or screw up with them, but no matter what, it always ends up fun. Except when playing against Eldar. God I hate having such weak Tier 1 units, and virtually no early-game detector. Getting rape't by early-game Rangers is.. degrading.

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January 13, 2009 2:58:21 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

I heard the DE turned out okay; they were probably worked on first.  I still play DoW, but I can only stand it with the DC Pro mod.  It cuts down on the mindless spam and insures all units scale through the game and remain useful.  They're working on one for SS now.  Maybe by the time it's out SS will have dropped to $20 and I'll pick it up for the new factions.  Alternatively, the Witch Hunters mod is in open beta and seems to have much higher quality models than the Ironlore offering.

I don't know how they though air units were a good idea though.  There were still plenty of decent units they could have added to the existing factions.

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January 13, 2009 11:59:34 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting lbgsloan,
I heard the DE turned out okay; they were probably worked on first.  I still play DoW, but I can only stand it with the DC Pro mod.  It cuts down on the mindless spam and insures all units scale through the game and remain useful.  They're working on one for SS now.  Maybe by the time it's out SS will have dropped to $20 and I'll pick it up for the new factions.  Alternatively, the Witch Hunters mod is in open beta and seems to have much higher quality models than the Ironlore offering.

I don't know how they though air units were a good idea though.  There were still plenty of decent units they could have added to the existing factions.
I completely agree. Just adding air units and claim that it revolutionized the gameplay was a crook. Most of them are utterly useless, and those that aren't feel like they're just there as air-to-air countermeasures. The Sisters of Battle also turned out perfectly ok, and were my favourite before I started playing seriously with the Dark Eldar - they take a lot more work getting used to.

I never liked the Witch Hunters mod, since none of their models fit into the style of the game. It's like the Daemonhunters mod, for the same reasons. I'm extremely picky when it comes to mods, only choosing those that fits seamlessly in with the game. The Witch Hunters mod doesn't.

What I would've liked Iron Lore to do instead, though, would've been to create a "Inquisition" army, rather than the Sisters of Battle. The Sisters of Battle on their own, instead of the Ordo Hereticus, just doesn't sit well with me. And if one of the Ordos are in, I'd like for all of them to be in - and since 4 entire new armies would've been a bit too much to hope for, I'd opt for a full Inquisitorial army retinue.

Now I'm just rambling, though.

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January 16, 2009 8:28:30 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I disliked soulstorm. That's just me, perhaps.

Some things worthy of note are that it's very similar to Dawn of War 1 in multiplayer mode; they shift the emphasis back to armies and territory control as opposed to the singleplayer campaign.

Regardless, I look forward to playing the DoW2 beta alongside the Demigod beta.

With regards to the "DLC for paying customers" debate, I must confess I bought into impulse and Stardock in general quite late; however I do recall Valve releasing free Counter Strike Source maps and content as early as 2005.

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January 16, 2009 9:27:31 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Mooglepies,

With regards to the "DLC for paying customers" debate, I must confess I bought into impulse and Stardock in general quite late; however I do recall Valve releasing free Counter Strike Source maps and content as early as 2005.

 

I'm pretty sure stardock was still first technically.  I say technically since it wasn't on impulse and it wasn't for games.

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January 16, 2009 10:01:12 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

the 21st is fast approaching. 

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January 17, 2009 12:28:05 AM from GalCiv II Forums GalCiv II Forums

Mmmmm - new content and free updates?

I think that was actually pioneered by Nethack - {G}.

 

Jonnan

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January 21, 2009 3:00:01 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

*drools uncontrollably after playing some comp-stomp in the DoW2 Beta*

Now i have a serious distraction until Elemental's beta...

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January 21, 2009 8:15:44 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Soulstorm is now ridiculously cheap at Steam, only 3,75 €. Of course it's trick to get people pay for the DoW 2 beta access, but they got me...

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January 21, 2009 8:57:37 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

So uh... if you buy soulstorm from steam you get into the Dow2 beta straight away?

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January 21, 2009 8:58:45 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

That's right. They both appeared on My Games list.

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January 21, 2009 9:06:18 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Confirmed

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January 21, 2009 10:50:24 AM from GalCiv II Forums GalCiv II Forums

Thank god another company is leaving the path of stupid DRM and going the Stardock way of rewarding paying customers instead of punishing them (and meh at them saying Valve were the pioneers there).

One of the most annoying types of DRM is the one that tells you that you can't play the game you bought legally because you've got "emulation software" installed. Like in the old days when they'd refuse to run if you had a CD burner in the computer

Yes Securom, I have Daemon Tools installed. A legal copy of it that I bought several years ago to circumvent not copy protection, but the extremely annoying delays between track changes in games that used CD audio music. This didn't become a big problem until CD drives started surpassing 8-10x speed. Digital CD Audio didn't have that delay problem, but the constant noise from the higher speed CD drives was enough to drive me crazy, and going Analogue audio did slow it down, but caused big delays (and often game pauses) while the game changed tracks. Civilization II was the game that finally got me to cave in and start using Daemon Tools; which eliminated the noise problem, the track delays and the need to change CDs between games all in one fell swoop. Kinda like playing games downloaded from Impulse now (and Steam, but that has the annoying log-in time on Steam itself ).

I don't really use it a lot anymore except when running pretty old games and games whose CDs no longer work (like my BG2: ToB CD, but it was pretty bad even the day I got it), but that doesn't mean I'll uninstall and reinstall the program all the time just because some copy protection says "OMG PIRATE!!!". Especially since that same copy protection is so bloody easy to circumvent, making this, as usual, a hassle for legitimate users only, not pirates.

Intrusive DRM can and should go die in a fire, now.

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January 21, 2009 11:17:23 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I keep thinking one of these days someone's going to see something they shouldn't have on my computer.

I figure I could make it out the window in my office before someone could break through the door. Outside there's a fire escape but I noticed a few months back if you play your cards right you can actually jump across to the other building and escape over the roof (there's like a vent thing that is old and rusty you have to land on, it can hold my weight but not someone larger). Right next to the chimney on the roof there were a couple of loose tiles where I hid some money and an external USB drive - if you stomp on the tiles they come loose again. The other building has several exits and I placed tiny mirrors I can fold down on the roof so I can see where they are / are moving to. Once down from the roof I would proceed to an old container not many blocks away, stood there for years and noone did anything with it except shit and dump garbage. Anyway there are two ways into the container, and I locked the small doors and left the big ones open and dumped some furniture so anyone who looks at it walking past won't even notice it is actually where I have a spare set of clothes and just enough room to change. After that I'd grab a taxi (never the first one that stops ofc) and proceed to the train station where I would pay a bum to get my train ticket, and if you tilt your head just right and hold a phone to your head when entering the trains you can avoid all the cameras without looking suspicious (or if I am real lucky it rains so I can hold umbrella/newspaper over head). Then about half-way to the next station (~15 minutes) I would jump off the train at some signal lights where it usually slows down, and if you walk about 5 kilometers through the forest there is a tiny village with an adorable inn that doesn't ask for your CC or your name if you bring cash. That's not where I would spend the night, because I figure the police must have learned about that quite some time ago. Instead, there's a bus that goes between that village and a couple of other remote places and they have these funny busses where you can't actually see if someone is sleeping in the seats in the back. At this stage it's important to not move too far from the original scene because they know how far you can run, and they don't always bother checking inside that area. After that, I could start to make some real plans.

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January 21, 2009 11:28:51 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Heavenfall,
I keep thinking one of these days someone's going to see something they shouldn't have on my computer.

I figure I could make it out the window in my office before someone could break through the door. Outside there's a fire escape but I noticed a few months back if you play your cards right you can actually jump across to the other building and escape over the roof (there's like a vent thing that is old and rusty you have to land on, it can hold my weight but not someone larger). Right next to the chimney on the roof there were a couple of loose tiles where I hid some money and an external USB drive - if you stomp on the tiles they come loose again. The other building has several exits and I placed tiny mirrors I can fold down on the roof so I can see where they are / are moving to. Once down from the roof I would proceed to an old container not many blocks away, stood there for years and noone did anything with it except shit and dump garbage. Anyway there are two ways into the container, and I locked the small doors and left the big ones open and dumped some furniture so anyone who looks at it walking past won't even notice it is actually where I have a spare set of clothes and just enough room to change. After that I'd grab a taxi (never the first one that stops ofc) and proceed to the train station where I would pay a bum to get my train ticket, and if you tilt your head just right and hold a phone to your head when entering the trains you can avoid all the cameras without looking suspicious (or if I am real lucky it rains so I can hold umbrella/newspaper over head). Then about half-way to the next station (~15 minutes) I would jump off the train at some signal lights where it usually slows down, and if you walk about 5 kilometers through the forest there is a tiny village with an adorable inn that doesn't ask for your CC or your name if you bring cash. That's not where I would spend the night, because I figure the police must have learned about that quite some time ago. Instead, there's a bus that goes between that village and a couple of other remote places and they have these funny busses where you can't actually see if someone is sleeping in the seats in the back. At this stage it's important to not move too far from the original scene because they know how far you can run, and they don't always bother checking inside that area. After that, I could start to make some real plans.

Very nice...plus 1 to you my friend.  Had me lol'ing for awhile.

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