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An open letter to George W from Michael Moore

democrat
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thatoneguyinslc
Draginol
Join Date 03/2001
+137 moderator
Reply #26 August 29, 2004 1:41:47 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums

You guys are aware that we are not the only country on the planet right?

When it comes to deciding who I'm going to vote for then yes, I don't really care about world opinion. They don't pay taxes.

 (Keyword: RIGHT)...Or maybe not. You're Neo-cons....The whole world revolves around you....My mistake!

Uh-huh. Yea, I'm a real neo-con.

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thatoneguyinslc
thatoneguyinslc
Join Date 07/2004
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Reply #27 August 29, 2004 1:48:00 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
Well drag, from what ive seen in your posts...If not...My bad!
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thatoneguyinslc
Sir Peter Maxwell
Join Date 02/2004
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Reply #28 August 29, 2004 1:49:10 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
and the world's opinion matters...why?


Because America cannot survive as a single entity, when will Americans learn that there is a world beyond their shores and it is far more important? Of course, I am referring to Britain and more specifically England. England is the world's greatest nation, that is why America so slavishly imitates us in a bid to appear a "superpower".
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thatoneguyinslc
kingbee
Join Date 04/2004
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Reply #29 August 29, 2004 2:11:40 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums

bakerstreet?  youre not seriously suggesting that candidate k will be less effective than candidate b because candidate k's domestic opponents succesfully ressurected a 30+ scam originally engineered by a president whom, prior to being  forced out of office in disgrace for attempting to conceal his complicity in similar scams, had ordered us forces (in that president's capacity as  their commander in chief) to violate the geneva accord--as reported truthfully by candidate k? 


i doubt it can be intelligbly translated into arabic or korean (even if they use those gitmo creative translators).  i cant follow it in english.


 

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thatoneguyinslc
kingbee
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Reply #30 August 29, 2004 2:15:42 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
this has become more byzantine than the notorious double-secret-probation councils of ancient constantinople   
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thatoneguyinslc
Lee1776
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Reply #31 August 29, 2004 2:17:41 PM
from PoliticalMachine ForumsPoliticalMachine Forums
You're Neo-cons....


I'm far from a Neo-con; I'm just backing the lesser of the two evils. If any Moderate could get past a primary I would most likely vote for them (Democrat or Republican). I just feel that Kerry is the biggest threat to this country right now. The mans moral character is for sale and he changes his political stance more times then he does his socks. I think he is the poster child for what many Americans considered a political weasel. Do I like President Bush? Aaah he is OK. But Kerry.... scares me to think about it.
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thatoneguyinslc
Spc Nobody Special
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Reply #32 August 29, 2004 2:47:02 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
Screw it all....Viva McCain!!!!
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thatoneguyinslc
DexusSky
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Reply #33 August 29, 2004 2:50:03 PM
from PoliticalMachine ForumsPoliticalMachine Forums
anyway whats up with McCain....i agree with Bill Mahr.....What ever the republicans are balck mailing John McCain with STOP!
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thatoneguyinslc
thatoneguyinslc
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Reply #34 August 29, 2004 3:55:51 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
I'm far from a Neo-con; I'm just backing the lesser of the two evils. If any Moderate could get past a primary I would most likely vote for them (Democrat or Republican).


I was speaking of Drag And Baker actually, sorry for the confusion. And i agree on rethinking my choice if there were a more moderate candidate in the race... Like Wes Clark! But i believe John Kerry is the lesser of the two evils. He is a liberal, but not nearly as liberal as the repubs would like you to think. Hell they accused Bubba of that all the time, and he was a centrist!


i doubt it can be intelligbly translated into arabic or korean (even if they use those gitmo creative translators). i cant follow it in english.


kingbee....neither can I!

Because America cannot survive as a single entity, when will Americans learn that there is a world beyond their shores


For once...I agree with Sir Peter! Well said old chap!

Of course, I am referring to Britain and more specifically England. England is the world's greatest nation, that is why America so slavishly imitates us in a bid to appear a "superpower".


Well....So much for agreement!....

Screw it all....Viva McCain!!!!


Well said! Even though i'm a dem, i would vote for Big John in a second! This guy gets it!

I'm guessing that Bush 2.0 has pics/video of him with a bottle of tequila, two naked flight attendants, and big fat spliff in his mouth while watching "Farenheit 9/11"!
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thatoneguyinslc
Deference
Join Date 04/2004
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Reply #35 August 29, 2004 3:57:09 PM
from PoliticalMachine ForumsPoliticalMachine Forums
The troops that support Micheal Moore,
A WHOLE FAT BOOK WORTH!

http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/index.php?id=134

"some forget that out of all the groups in America, it is the soldiers who benefit from peace the most"
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thatoneguyinslc
Sir Peter Maxwell
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Reply #36 August 29, 2004 3:57:47 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
I agree with Sir Peter! Well said old chap!


Let all who know nobility follow me.
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thatoneguyinslc
Lee1776
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Reply #37 August 29, 2004 4:30:12 PM
from PoliticalMachine ForumsPoliticalMachine Forums
The troops that support Micheal Moore,
A WHOLE FAT BOOK WORTH!


I can't quote for all the soldiers about this, but the two people in my unit that thought they agreed with Micheal Morre wanted to quote "Bash his teeth in" after they seen the movie. They are still going to vote for Kerry, but they were ashamed Moore had anything to do with Kerry.
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thatoneguyinslc
Zoomie
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Reply #38 August 29, 2004 5:01:38 PM
from PoliticalMachine ForumsPoliticalMachine Forums
I wonder if the families of all the dead soldiers Moore rides on appreciates him waving the bloody shirt to further his career.


I'm sure they'll appreciate far more than they did knowing their family members died for nothing.
No WMD, no terrorist connections, no thown flowers, no flowering of democracy...Ever notice that
now the only reason most conservatives give is that Saddam was a really evil man, and its a good
thing he's gone? Sure its good. No one disagrees. But that wasn't the justification for the war. And
its EXTREMELY unlikely the American people would have been as supportive had that been put
forward as the justification. But this is part of the Bush flip-flop M/O. He claims something to accomplish
a goal, then just changes or reverses himself, confident the poodle-press will roll over and never point
out his flip-flop, or question his deception. Anyone remember him in 2000, attacking Clinton/Gore for
nation building? Something he would never, ever do? And now we're in the middle of the biggest
nationbuilding effort since the Marshall Plan! And it wasn't forced on him, it was a war of choice!

Moore isn't an activist, he is P.T. Barnum, enjoying his well-earned seat in the Presidential box at the DNC.


Contrasted against whom? Bush's guest for the SOTU Address, sitting right next to Waura? You know,
Ahmed Chalabi, his good buddy who turned out to be passing our classified info to the Axis of Evil member,
Iran! I think most Americans would prefer Moore to Bush's friends.

Moore makes documentaries, ones which pose interesting questions, ones in which he seeks out
the answer. But they are not ones that necessarily supply you with an answer. But they do make you think!
I didn't see "Bowling for Columbine" in a theatre, waited for cable. But I kept hearing, especially from the
right, how it was an "anti-gun" movie. Except when I saw it, it was pretty obvious to me it wasn't anti-gun.
Moore is a lifetime member of the NRA; when comparing the dramatic differences in gun violence
between the US and Canada, he goes to great pains to point out per capita there are almost as many
guns in Canada as in the US. The movie wasn't anti-gun; it was a try at figuring out why we seem unique
in the industrialized world re: gun violence against our own citizens! And he never comes up with an
answer, he just explodes all the old myths (ie. blame it on the quantity of guns, blame it on TV).

Finally, I've not yet seen Fahrenheit 911, but I do know he has repeatedly asked anyone who claims there
is a factual error to document it, and as yet I've seen none. Many people I know who have gone to see it
are quite surprised and upset when they realize that the President of the United States, Commander-in-Chief,
was told in no uncertain terms that America was under attack, yet he sat down and listened along with the
small children for 7+ whole minutes, doing nothing. Personally, I've watched that scene many times and
I'm convinced what we're seeing is fear and uncertainty, which left him literally frozen until the class
session was ended. I've heard many Bush fans talk of Kerry's statement he sat frozen in horror for a long time.
But that ignores Kerry wasn't Commander-in-Chief; Kerry had no responsibility to do anything, to protect America.
Bush did.
We can draw a comparison here, which is very fair: Kerry in combat in Vietnam did NOT freeze, quite the opposite.
All witnesses and evidence (ignoring those who've decided 35yrs later to change their mind and contradict
themselves). Bush's one and only face-to-face meeting with war, and he froze solid. Is that what we want in
a Commander-in-Chief? Not me!

Zoomie
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thatoneguyinslc
bakerstreet
Join Date 03/2001
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Reply #39 August 29, 2004 5:12:15 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
"youre not seriously suggesting that candidate k will be less effective than candidate b because candidate k's domestic opponents succesfully ressurected a 30+ scam originally engineered by a president whom, prior to being forced out of office in disgrace for attempting to conceal his complicity in similar scams, had ordered us forces (in that president's capacity as their commander in chief) to violate the geneva accord--as reported truthfully by candidate k? "


Scam? Nope. I'm not talking about anything other that what Kerry himself attested to. Kerry stated that he violated the Geneva conference, burned villages, etc. Now, the Left calls him a war hero and want him to be President.

I just find it odd that people can attack Bush for NOT going to a war they laud others for dodging. Those same people call Kerry a hero for committing "atrocities" in the same "unjust" war, , with no complaints until after he gets home and starts his political career..

Face it, if Moore were so inclined he could rip Kerry to shreds. There's nothing subjective about Kerry's testimony, and it is certainly going to be there for anyone that wants to tear away at the US to use.
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thatoneguyinslc
Abanamore
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Reply #40 August 29, 2004 5:32:09 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
Well that obese turd Moore is at it again; hmm. one charlatan defending another. If it only took a band aid, it didn't deserve a medal.
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thatoneguyinslc
Flybynight458
Join Date 08/2004
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Reply #41 August 29, 2004 5:37:10 PM
from PoliticalMachine ForumsPoliticalMachine Forums


How can moore possibly accuse Bush of going after Kerry's war record when Bush has openly denounced the attacks by the Swift Vets?

The entire basis for that letter is irrelevant, a major tactic of Michael Moore.
Bottom Line: Moore is a fat, lying, blowhard piece of dog crap, and those are his good qualities

www.moorewatch.com
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thatoneguyinslc
Don Bemont
Join Date 06/2003
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Reply #42 August 29, 2004 8:03:47 PM
from PoliticalMachine ForumsPoliticalMachine Forums
How can moore possibly accuse Bush of going after Kerry's war record when Bush has openly denounced the attacks by the Swift Vets?
You are either hopelessly naive or hopelessly partisan. Does ANYONE with a brain really believe that either candidate lacks control over the direction of the interest group ads? Bush is trying to have it both ways -- let the attacks do their damage, and then after a few weeks take the moral high ground in denouncing them.

and the world's opinion matters...why?
A very odd crowd, which believes that the terrorist threat is so overwhelming that all sorts of American ideals must be jettisoned, yet is so unconcerned about the terrorist threat that we need not care whether we have other countries support. A paradox, eh?
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thatoneguyinslc
Draginol
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Reply #43 August 29, 2004 9:00:14 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums

So which American ideals have been jettisoned. Feel free to list those. I am not aware of any ideals that were jettisoned but I'm ready to be educated.

Meanwhile, it is in the interest of other nations to fight the war on terror. As those who have appeased them the most, such as the French, are just as, if not more likely, to become victims of it.  Are Frenchmen going to sweat that we Americans despise Chirac during the next election over there? I doubt it. Similarly, why should I, as an American, give a care what someone in Belgium or France or whatever thinks of Bush?

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thatoneguyinslc
Flybynight458
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Reply #44 August 29, 2004 9:03:41 PM
from PoliticalMachine ForumsPoliticalMachine Forums
"You are either hopelessly naive or hopelessly partisan. Does ANYONE with a brain really believe that either candidate lacks control over the direction of the interest group ads? Bush is trying to have it both ways -- let the attacks do their damage, and then after a few weeks take the moral high ground in denouncing them."

But Bush had nothing to do with the attacks! And Michael Moore bases the entire letter on the fact that he started it.
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thatoneguyinslc
The Crusaders
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Reply #45 August 29, 2004 9:29:07 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
What a way to tell it as it is!!
I think that was incredibly written by Michael Moore and I hope everyone gets the chance to read it.
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thatoneguyinslc
thatoneguyinslc
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Reply #46 August 29, 2004 9:33:54 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
How about the IDEAL of the right to privacy?...That pretty much has been jettisoned Drag!
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thatoneguyinslc
James Craver
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Reply #47 August 29, 2004 9:35:47 PM
from PoliticalMachine ForumsPoliticalMachine Forums
Well, now that you mention it, and bearing in mind that I am a liberal, there is no constitutional right to privacy. There is a right against illegal search and seizure, but, if you read the Constitution, there is no mention of a right to privacy.
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thatoneguyinslc
Draginol
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Reply #48 August 29, 2004 10:14:00 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums

How about the IDEAL of the right to privacy?...That pretty much has been jettisoned Drag!

It is? Really? Feel free to explain. How is your life any less private than it was before Bush? Do you even know what you're talking about or are you just repeating rantings you've seen on-line.

The Patriot act, btw, was voted for by Kerry.

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thatoneguyinslc
Zoomie
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Reply #49 August 29, 2004 11:39:59 PM
from PoliticalMachine ForumsPoliticalMachine Forums
If it only took a band aid, it didn't deserve a medal.


That's kind of cruel, talking about Bob Dole that way! I mean, its true he did say in his bio that his 1st PH was
caused by his own grenade bouncing back his way, and sending a sliver of metal through his leg, and he did
say a medic treated it with merchurochome, a band-aid and a Purple Heart, but still...I mean, he did volunteer.
He did fight in real battles with real enemies. He did actually risk his life in service to his country (as opposed
to folk who "had better things to do", or who didn't "want to blow out an ear drum or run away to Canada, so
joined the Air National Guard", thanks to Daddy's influence)...

You are talking about Dole, right? Well, even if you ain't, its just amazing how their first Purple Heart experiences
were so similar (except the metal didn't go through Kerry's leg...its still there)...
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thatoneguyinslc
Zoomie
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Reply #50 August 29, 2004 11:58:33 PM
from PoliticalMachine ForumsPoliticalMachine Forums
But Bush had nothing to do with the attacks!


You sure of that?
Bob Perry, the Republican donor who has provided $200,000 to Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, is a "longtime friend" of Bush's chief political aide, Karl Rove. Perry also gave $46,000 to Bush's political campaigns in 1994 and 1998 and $3 million to Texas Republicans during the 2002 elections. Patterson, the Texas land commissioner, has received more than $150,000 in campaign contributions from Perry. And, on August 23, The Dallas Morning News reported that Perry is listed as the co-host of a September 1 GOP fund-raiser in New York City and that "those on the invitation list include former President George Bush, presidential adviser Karl Rove and House Majority Leader Tom DeLay." [The New York Times, 8/20/04; Annenberg Political Fact Check, 8/6/04; The Dallas Morning News, 8/23/04 (subscription required)]

Susan Arceneaux, who helped set up Swift Boat Veterans for Truth and is listed as the contact person on the post office box the group uses as its address, is treasurer of the Majority Leader's Fund, "a political action committee affiliated with the former House majority leader Dick Armey of Texas. ... Records show that like Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, the group receives significant financing from Bob Perry." [The New York Times, 8/24/04]

Harlan Crow, who has provided $25,000 to Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, is also the seventh-largest Republican donor in Texas and a trustee of the George Bush Presidential Library Foundation. [The New York Times, 8/20/04]

Merrie Spaeth, a public relations executive who has "helped coordinate the efforts of Swift Boat Veterans for Truth," was married to the late Tex Lezar, who was Bush's running mate during the 1994 Texas gubernatorial race. (The governor and lieutenant governor are elected separately in Texas; Bush won and Lezar lost.) Spaeth has also said she is close friends with Senator Kay Bailey Hutchison (R-TX), who is one of Rove's top clients. [The New York Times, 8/20/04] (( and in a totally unrelated Jeopary
moment, was one of the two teenage girls chasing after Peter Sellers in the movie "The World of Henry Orient", 1964 - she was
16 at the time, her one and only movie))

Kenneth Cordier, who appeared in the second Swift Boat Veterans for Truth advertisement, was a member of the Bush-Cheney '04 National Veterans Steering Committee, an appointee to a Bush administration advisory committee, and vice chair of Veterans for Bush-Cheney '00. [MMFA, 8/25/04; The Washington Post, 8/22/04]

Margaret Wilson, who "became Mr. Bush's general counsel when he was governor of Texas and followed him to the White House as deputy counsel for the Department of Commerce," is also a partner in the law firm of John E. O'Neill, who leads Swift Boat Veterans for Truth. [The New York Times, 8/20/04]

Benjamin Ginsburg, "the Bush campaign's chief outside counsel, has also been giving legal advice to Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, the group that is attacking Kerry." Ginsburg resigned from the Bush-Cheney '04 campaign on August 25. [Reuters, 8/24/04; The New York Times, 8/25/04]

And as another aside, in an interview Ginsburg has given about exactly what he did and for whom, analysis of his
comments by a member of the D.C. Bar Association (the only Bar Association Ginsburg belongs to) would appear to
have him admitting to at least one and possibly two serious violations of the Rules of Professional Conduct of the District of Columbia Bar.Link

Zoomie
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