I didn't say you couldn't call yourself that, I simply said that you really didn't do anything to earn the title.[/quote]
I'm sorry Baker but I don't get your point here. I am American not because I call myself one, I am because I am. I was born and raised here. I am American, I earned it because I was born here. There is no national law stating that one has to earn the right to be call a citizen of your own country. Where do you come up with this stuff. You are condemming every child born in this country to a nobody simply because they have not somehow earn the right to call themselves Americans? I'm starting to think you have lost your mind. This makes no sense.
Some people seem to think it is some label of quality or idealism that we can't allow to be watered down.
Some people? I hope you are including yourself since you were the one that said "I simply said that you really didn't do anything to earn the
title." and "with this constant need to defend a
title that 99.9% of people don't really do anything to achieve.". You may not think that calling yourself American is not some kind of powerful title, that does not mean other see it that way. I am proud to be know as an AZmerican, I wear my citizenship with pride, I feel empowered by it, the name is respected by some and feared by others, it's a link to a nation that is know for it's excessive amount of freedom that so many others around the world are willing to risk their very lives to reach and taste. I would never change my country for any other and to be known as an American is not only important to me but it's also a chance that a better lifestyle is possible. The US may not be Utopia, but as far as I'm concerned it comes pretty close, it just needs some tweaking here and there. So no, I will not allow anyone to water down this name. Not even Bush.
In reality, prisons are full of "Americans", and someone who has worked here for ten years and contributed to their community is deemed unworthy of the title.
If I had to choose between the illegal working 12 hour days nailing shingles, and the guy sitting in jail for molesting kids, I'd rather associate the former with the label "American" than the latter. If we are going to start being picky about who uses our "brand", then we really ought to look at how much of a slipshod manner we use to hand it out, and the standards we have to keep it.
If we are going to allow people who are born here to rape, murder, steal, etc., all their lives, and then call them Americans, well, how much does the name really mean? If you guys are concerned with the devaluing of the moniker, maybe there are bigger issues to address than illegals.
Again another point that makes no sense. I can not take away a man's/woman's right to be an American just because they commited a crime. Every culture has criminals. This analogy makes no sense to me. You make it sound as if all these illegal immigrants are somehow incapable of rape, murder, steaing, etc. And that choice you gave is pointless, I have no right to chose who to make American, especially one who was born here. I admit I would chose a person who is not a criminal such as a rapist, muderer, thief, bigot or sexist, but I would not care if he/she was American, Australian, Brazilian, Cuban, etc. I don't base my taste in friends on what part of the world they come from. This is apple and oranges my frined and you are just trying to come up with analogies to back up your beliefs.
Let me tell you that juding by what I have read in the past week from you, I can say that we have a lot more in common than you might think, but I don't need to come up with weird, make no sense analogies to prove my beliefs. I back you up in the idea that we should not condemn an entire race and/or religion based on the actions of a few, but as I said before I can not discard the fact that it as a particular race with a particular religion where these extremist that threaten my life and that of my fellow Americans are from. No matter how much it bugs you, you can not deny this fact.
And there's your problem. You act like it is charity. In reality we beg them to come here. Every other million dollar home in LA is staffed by illegals. Most of your fruit was probably picked by illegals. The roofing industry would basically cease to exist in most of the US without illegals.
I'm sorry Baker (again) but "we" is a lot of people. Just like I have been told before you are generalizing a bit too much here. I begged no one. I expect my services to be done by legal means, if there are illegals in some of the systems I use they should be removed and the companies should be fined. But don't expect me to go out and investigate every company, corporation and mom and pop store to see if a legit American is serving me. I should not have to, that why there are laws in this country. And no I refuse to believe that any industry in this country would cease to exist simply because of the lack of illegal immigrants. What would happen is that not all of them will be driving BMW's and Benz' to work (the owners I mean) and people will just have to pay a bit more, but that doesn't seem to be a problem here since I am paying at least $1.50 more in gas than I was before, I am paying more for many items in the supermarket, fast foods have risen some of their prices, basically everything has gone up yet we have a strong economy and I have yet to hear about the millions of Americans all of a sudden homeless and starving due to raising prices. You give illegal immigrants too much credit. And maybe we should start asking ourselves why rich people need cheap labor, it's not like they can afford legal employees.
So this charity stuff is bunk. If we don't like them being here, then we need to stop the people who invite them here and pay them money to be here. If we aren't willing to do that because we like our fruit and roofing jobs cheap, then we need to shut up and stop being hypocrites.
I couldn't agree more with the second sentence. But I did not ask for any American business to break laws in order to save myself some money. We all know they charge up the ying yang anyways. $.25 to make a $5 lipstick, it's all bull Baker. We don't need illegals to make things cheaper, what we need is for companies, corporations and mom and pop stores to stop taking advantage of the ignorance of the average person and their laziness to go somewhere else to shop to make high, unearned profits. If I've said it once I've said it a thousand times, things are only worth what people are willing to pay for them, Walmart brand products are proof of that.
