A Fairer America? No, a poorer America

Mortimer Zuckerman's fractured view of economics

In the classic book, Atlas Shrugged, the government begins a program in which wealth is distributed based on need rather than merit. This requires that wealth is confiscated by those who are producing it to be handed to those who aren't.  The more productive a citizen you are, the less of what you produce you get to keep. The less productive you are, the more you receive. Eventually, the producers of America go on strike and the country collapses.

The points made in the book are stunning for their obviousness -- government doesn't make wealth, people do.

In the October US News and World Report, Editor-In-Chief Mortimer Zuckerman has an editorial entitled "A fairer America" with the point "The income gap between the richest and poorest Americans is wider than at any time in history and we must take urgent measures to begin closing it."

Who's 'we'?

What Zuckerman fails to realize is that the only way to close the gap is to make everyone poorer. If you want a society in which everyone is equal, it will be a society in which everyone lives in misery. The question, therefore is, how much poorer do you want everyone to live in order to satisfy some arbitrary statistical result?

The people who produce the items that enrich our lives -- homes that are very inexpensive per square foot despite having a wealth of features we take for granted, personal computers, cell phones, automobiles, televisions, Internet services, you name it, can be classified as the top 5% or so of the economic population.

When those top 5% are targeted by the government, they adapt and everyone else faces the consequences. These consequences, are amazingly ignored by Zuckerman who behaves as if some of today's realities (outsourcing, automation, downsizing) were somehow inevitable.  But I'm getting ahead of myself.

Zuckerman writes that in the late 1800s there was a huge gulf between the rich and the poor. And yet somehow, most Americans were far better off than their parents were. (By magic one presumes).

"Capitalism played a big role, but government did too, with the passage of the Homestead Act of 1862 giving 160 acres to settlers who would live on the land for at least five years.."

The government was very generous with other people's lands weren't they? I am not condemning the Homestead act, but I would not be quick to praise the confiscation of millions of acres of lands from one people to hand to another.  Nor would I be quick to claim that "giving" 160 acres unearned helped the economy anywhere near what free market did. 

Perhaps Zuckerman should take a look at a map of the United States and look at the areas that were covered by the Homestead act.  Was providing 160 acres, unearned, to settlers the cause of the economic boom of the late 1800s?  Was Colorado, Wyoming, Montana (for example) the center of the industrial revolution?  372,000 farms were created but is anyone going to argue that this is what made the average American better off than his parents?

Zuckerman, who as a reminder, is promoting the concept of closing the income gap, notes that the 1970s were known as "the great compression" where the income gap between rich and poor shrank sharply.  Does anyone want to go back to the 1970s?

In the early 80s, Ronald Reagan was able to get through massive tax cuts and massive deregulation of industry.  Most adults alive today know the results -- a great increase in the real world standard of living.  But laments Zuckerman, the gap between rich and poor increased.

Let's be clear: The gap between rich and poor is a measurement of how regulated an economy is. Period.

It is not about "fairness".  If you have two runners in a marathon, the gap between them will grow over time as one runs faster. The only way to shrink that gap is to force the faster running to run more slowly.

But since the 1980s, the government has increasingly meddled, especially in the area of corporate taxes. If my company makes $100,000 profit, almost 40% of that profit will go to the federal government. Moreover, the federal government has opened US companies up to "free trade" by enabling foreign competition in (which is good) but forced companies to continue to have to face mounds of regulation and taxes compared to those companies (that is bad).

But what does Zuckerman conclude of the obvious result:

"Today, however, the wealth escalator doesn't work. In fact, while many families thought they were going up, they have actually been going down. In sectors of the economy where jobs could be mechanized or automated, tens of thousands now have no work. At the same time, most of the income gains we have reaped from productivity went to just the top 1% of Americans..."

Well DUH. 

First off, families thought they were going "up" because they were. They don't pay attention to CPIs. They pay attention to how they are living -- bigger houses with air condition, nicer cars, computers, better food at lower prices, etc. Clothes that don't look and feel like a now-illegal method of interrogation.

Secondly, the guys at the top 1%, let's call them what they are -- business owners -- faced with foreign competition thanks to "free trade" but still faced with a myriad of government imposed costs in hiring human beings (there is no payroll tax on machines) did the only sane thing -- they replaced low skilled labor with machines. And who's fault is that?

The problem with people like Zuckerman is that they think that the government has something to do with the production of wealth. It doesn't. It merely sets the rules. And business follow those rules (in general).

Business owners are motivated by profit. Profit is not the same as greed (greed is a term used by class warriors to smear the productive class).  Profit to them is merely the measure of how effective they are.

So if you make it more profitable for business owners to either replace human beings with machines / hire the same work force that the foreign competitors are using instead of hiring Americans because you've made it impractical to do so, that is what they'll do.

Zuckerman, whose article reads almost as a parody of one of the sad sacks in Atlas Shrugged makes some startlingly illogical conclusions:

"Even college graduates, who have long enjoyed a big edge in wage and benefits, are feeling the pinch because of soaring costs of tuition..."

And why are college tuitions "soaring"? Most universities are publicly funded. Name a single privately produced product that has not changed in quality or quantity and is not in short supply whose costs have "soared"?  Only a government run system could function in an environment in which it charges more while producing inferior results.

But Zuckerman's prescription? (and I'm not kidding, it's in the same article):

  1. MORE support for education at all levels
  2. A major effort to brake soaring healthcare costs
  3. A NEW minimum wage

I'm serious. After making a fantastic case (unintentionally) for getting the government out of education and for decreasing its interference in the private workplace he recommends the opposite.

And why are healthcare costs going up? There's a lot of reasons. $10 co-pay? What the hell were they thinking? How about 10% co-pay. There's no incentive right now for competition based on price in the healthcare market and we're paying -- literally -- the price. 

And we Americans demand ever more sophisticated medical technology. You want cheap healthcare? Then let's go back to 100 years ago when Asprin was the treatment. That was cheap. Or maybe just 30 years ago where you had antibiotics but if you got anything serious (heart disease, cancer, or any chronic illness) the prescription was for you to die. That was pretty cheap too. 

Here's a clue to Zuckerman: More stuff costs MORE than less stuff. Especially if there's no incentive ($10 co-pays) for that top 1% to produce drugs based on price as opposed to effect.

If any American reading this thinks they are worse off today than they were 30 years ago, I can only wish they could find a time machine to go back to 1976. Land of lead smelling air, obscenely expensive air travel (before adjusting for inflation even), no cell phones, no computers, no DVD players, 8-track, no air conditioning if you lived in the North, no Internet and if you got cancer or had heart problems, or any other serious medical condition, you died.  Yea, those were the days. And it was a "fairer" America too!

Amazingly, Zuckerman ends with "Inequality and insecurity have simply become too pervasive a feature of American life. The American Dream shouldn't be just a dream."

Apparently, to Zuckerman, who must have emigrated from the former Soviet Union, the American dream is for everyone to live equally, presumably in state mandated housing because, you know, if someone has more than you, it hurts you -- it's at YOUR expense. And job security is a god-given right that can only be provided by the government one supposes.

 

21,046 views 55 replies
Reply #1 Top
I am not surprised.  The level of economic ignorance in this country amazes me.  Zuckerman is an editor of dubious quality.  He is not an economist, and should stop pretending to be one.
Reply #2 Top
While we might like to think we are altruistic and care about helping others, the fact is that we are motivated to work for our paycheck and for ourselves. I do care about other people but do I drag my butt out of bed and work everyday for them - nope. I work to earn my paycheck that I use to pay my bills and take care of my family. I see the benefit of my working.

I do have concerns about our economic divide though. I think minimum wage should be increased. I think something should be done about escalating healthcare and education costs. I think that matters more than gay marriage and steroids in baseball.

I do agree that I am doing better financially than my parents were at my age. I definately think in my family at least our standard of living has increased with each generation.
Reply #3 Top

The stuff you discuss (saying it was suggested and discussed by Zuckerman) has been tried before - it was called Communism - and didn't work.

Anything like Zuckerman has really proposed (for closing the wealth gap) almost always fails because people that have earned their wealth are smart enough to figure out ways to keep earning it, or they're smart enough to realize that they shoudln't kill themselves trying to earn wealth while others reap the rewards of their own hard work.

Those that get wealth handed to them for free typically wind up squandering it and failing to realize the true value of what was given to them.

Eventually you wind up with (as you mentioned) a country where the producers revolt and decide to take matters into their own hands.  They either quit working entirely, or they decide to find ways to hide their wealth so they don't have to share any of it.

If Zuckerman really wants fairness, he'd learn to keep Government out of it, and let the marketplace find it's own solutions.  Of course Zuckerman's article can't say that because he'd lose a bunch of readers in the process.

Reply #4 Top

I do have concerns about our economic divide though. I think minimum wage should be increased. I think something should be done about escalating healthcare and education costs.

These are reasonable concerns to have.  The question is, what should be done and what are the logical consequences of those actions?

Minimum wage increases pushes more outsourcing and more automation. Next time you're at the grociery store and see those automated check out lines, ask yourself why they made that choice? Push minimum wage a bit higher and pretty soon McDonalds will have automated order taking machines reducing their staffs by a third instantly resulting in hundreds of thousands of lost jobs. But will politicians blame themselves? Will the "compassionate" take a hard look at how the policies they advocated cost those jobs? No, they'll blame "greedy" corporations.

Healthcare will continue to rise as long as quality times quantity is the metric.  We can reduce health care costs by decreasing the amount of health care we use and the quality of it we want.

Reply #5 Top

I have yet to see the member of the cultural elite who is willing to live a modest lifestyle in order to share their bounty, just to keep things "fair".... On the other hand, I have seen many of them bill charities just for making an appearance.  I wonder why hollywood and other celebrities don't make it known that, in exchange for an appearance, The American Cancer Society (for example) is required to provide understandable fees like room, transportation, and food... but also wardrobe for the appearance, "riders" in the hotel room and often tickets for local special events not related to the appearance.

Then, many have the nerve to champion the cause of "Socialism".  

 

Reply #6 Top
The ultimate problem is everyone wants to have their cake and eat it too. We want to all work at obscenely high-paying jobs (hey, who wouldn't!?). We want all of our friends and family to do that well too. In fact, we would love it if everyone made a lot of money and could buy whatever they wanted or needed and never had to worry about bills again. It's a great dream. It's something for all of us to work towards.

On top of wanting lots of money, we also want all of our good to be insanely cheap. WalMart has bred in us an aversion to prices above $20 for most articles of clothing, the idea that good should be sold to consumers for pennies above manufacturing costs.

So we want everyone to make lots of money doing whatever they do, and we want goods to remain so cheap that they aren't a budget concern to the average American. If everyone involved in making, distributing and selling a toy that is sold on the shelves of WalMart made $50,000 a year, that toy would be astronomically expensive. Costs are low because there are ways to decrease the expense of goods through offshoring and automation.

But, we don't want those workers in the plant to make less money, or for fewer of them to be employed. Everyone must be employed, and everyone must make a wage that is above the poverty line, to ensure a comfortable and equitable standard of living. As you increase wages, the cost of goods increases, and then the poverty line goes up. Almost immediately inflation jumps into play and even if a janitor is pulling in $50k, it's suddenly just as valuable as his $5/hr job relative to living expenses now.

Not only does forcing wage equity, or redistributing wealth, discourage producers from producing as much (and feeding the economy that way), it actually does not fix the problem, in the long-run, it just changes the numbers, the the scale stays roughly the same.

Reply #7 Top
I read Atlast Shrugged year ago and am continually amazed to see politicians doing exactly those things that seem so absurd when read in the book. Glad you brought it up.

I won't make any comments about politicians who ignorant people who want simple answers to extremely complex issues - what I wanted to comment on was the term that comes up so many times in your article and the comments: wants.

First - the idea of fairness is flawed becuase it assumes that everyone will be happy if they all have the same stuff. I have a set of twins and they don't want the same stuff. One likes to play with Lego, the other would prefer to play Gamecube. They don't feel discriminated against because they got different stuff. Why do we (speaking of adults here) feel that if someone has more or different stuff than us that we are somehow inferior or are getting the short end of the straw? I'm an academic and often have students that make 3 times my wage within a year or two of leaving - and that's with a bachelors degree vs. my PhD. Do I care? No, because I am happy with what I have. I have a brother who is a very successful doctor. He has a large house on a river etc., but I don't feel jealous. He loves to fish etc., I am scared of the water and would be paranoid of my children drowning in the river so that I wouldn't enjoy the location.

The point is, I would be happier in a small apartment with access to a good library than I would be with a mansion and grounds etc... How can anyone ever measure what is 'fair' when everybody doesn't necessarily want a 'fair share'.

I was just interrupted and can't remember where I was going with the other points I wanted to make, so I'll just say that I'm not making myself out to be some great person - there are plenty of things I'd like that I just can't afford, but I don't think that means someone ought to give them to me. I just don't understand where this sense of entitlement comes from. When my kids say "That's not fair" I tell them that life isn't fair. Is it fair that they got born in a free country, have enought food and clothes, sleep inside a house and are all healty while millions of kids there age are orphaned and starving and have HIV or other illness too? Is it fair that my neighbor's baby was stillborn and ours was healthy? How are the politicians going to fix that? Take my baby away and give it to them? There are some things that can not and should not be legislated. I don't know the answers, but I do know that the problems are very complex and nobody should presume to fix them with a few laws or a bump to the minimum wage.
Reply #8 Top
Thanks Aviris for commenting on my article. Very well put.
Reply #9 Top

Reply By: Aviris(Anonymous User)

I am duly impressed!  Can you tell me your university so I can direct my children there?

Reply #10 Top
"Fairness isn't Fair and Equality is Never Equal"~ ParaTed2k's (Not So) Famous Sayings.
Reply #11 Top
While I do not agree with Zuckerman's assertion completely, the gulf between rich and poor should be a concern. The main reason is that when the gulf increases, it means that there are more poor, and thus a smaller middle class. This is important because the middle class supports a large burden of the economy. The top 1% may own production, but it is the middle class that actually buys most of the things produced. The rich spend most of their money on investments, and the poor simply try to get by. That leaves the middle class to drive the economy.

This is not to say that everyone should always make the same amount. That would not work. A huge part of whay communism failed was the lack of the profit motive. People had no incentive to work hard, because the job paid the same no matter how well you did. I simply believe this gulf is something to be deeply conserned about, and that a vast gap is not necessarily a good thing.
Reply #12 Top
Good points Tov.  But wouldn't the gap be self-correcting then? That if the middle class becomes too small that the system should self-correct.
Reply #13 Top
What should be of concern is the ability of Americans to secure a job that enables them to support their family. That is the issue. The jobs that are being created are paying LESS then the jobs that were lost. The people that have not lost their jobs find that their pay after inflation buys less every year.

The ability to secure a job and the adequacy of the pay for those that have a job has both social and economic consequences. People who can not find work or whose job does not enable them to support their family produces unrest. In addition, the lower income of the masses has an impact on spending and can contribute to lower economic growth (the 1.6% increase in the last quarter for example).

A recent survey shows that the average CEO makes 450 times the amount of the average worker. That means that in one day the CEO makes as much as the average makes in TWO YEARS of work. That is not reasonable and breads resentment! Bringing the wealth distribution into better balance is NOTHING like Communism.
Reply #14 Top
There are some things that can not and should not be legislated. I don't know the answers, but I do know that the problems are very complex and nobody should presume to fix them with a few laws or a bump to the minimum wage.


Well said.

The whole thing is IMHO a Robin Hood fixation. Rob from the rich and give to the poor and everything will be right with the world.

I am not among the rich and will likely never be so. I am squeaking by from paycheck to paycheck and thanks to some pretty severe injuries sustained in a car crash can't work as much as I used to work and am hopelessly in debt due to the very high medical bills. That doesn't mean that I expect the government to step in and take money out of Brad's pocket and hand it to me in the interest of "fairness". There would be nothing fair about that.

Anyone who thinks that life is supposed to be fair and society somehow owes them a living is seriously deluded.
Reply #15 Top
ColGene:

And I'm sure, in the name of fairness, Gene, you made sure that you distributed your Colonel pay to all your troops, and insisted your supbordinate officers and Senior NCOs did the same.

And now that you are making a retired Colonel's pension, I'm sure you lobby Congress to make all military pensions equal to yours, even if it means you recieving less (as long as others make more).

Give me a break Gene, a full bird with 30 years makes $9,216.30 a month while a Command Sergeant Major with 30 makes $5788.50. Are you telling me that, if you were in today, you would push for equal pay between Flag Officers and Senior NCOs? Unless you are, then your rhetoric is meaningless. All it tells me is that you expect others to work for parity where you refuse to, even though you preach it.
Reply #16 Top
Wow, Mortimer B. Zuckerman managed to write an editorial that wasn't about freaking Israel. He never has anything worth reading.

Good points Tov. But wouldn't the gap be self-correcting then? That if the middle class becomes too small that the system should self-correct.


The reason the system doesn't self-correct is economic incentives. Take the very unequal Latin American countries for an example. When there's no middle class, the poor stand to gain more from soaking the rich than they do from voting for pro-growth policies. And the _rich_ stand to gain more by keeping what they have than financing pro-growth policies like basic education and healthcare, which they won't use anyway. So the two groups fight over a shrinking pie.

The government was very generous with other people's lands weren't they? I am not condemning the Homestead act, but I would not be quick to praise the confiscation of millions of acres of lands from one people to hand to another. Nor would I be quick to claim that "giving" 160 acres unearned helped the economy anywhere near what free market did.


Zuckerman should note that at the same time the government was giving away 100-200 million acres under the Homestead Act, it was giving away 175 million acres to the Pacific Railway Company for the transcontinental railroad (h ttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacific_Railway_Acts), and about as much more to other railroad companies. Maybe he should write an article proposing massive industrial subsidies instead? But just note that the "free market" didn't create all of America's wealth without any confiscation either.

Perhaps Zuckerman should take a look at a map of the United States and look at the areas that were covered by the Homestead act.


Um... I found one in the first Google hit for "Homestead Act"... it shows that every state in the West was covered by the Act except for Texas, including California and even Ohio and Florida. (h ttp://www.nps.gov/archive/home/Homesteading%20Map.htm) Doesn't really say how big of an effect it had in each state though.

Was providing 160 acres, unearned, to settlers the cause of the economic boom of the late 1800s? Was Colorado, Wyoming, Montana (for example) the center of the industrial revolution?


Wikipedia mentions that in Wyoming, Colorado, and Montana, the Homestead Act tracts weren't big enough to make a farm, so people snapped up parcels of them and made ranches. Cattle ranching probably was one of the bigger industries in the West back then. Of course, that was kind of defeating the intent of the Homestead Act.

I'd really like to argue over the assumptions about fairness, equality, whether the economy is driven by the top 1%, whether the faster runner is ahead because he gets to choose the course, and so on, but picking away at the Homestead Act just feels much fresher and more likely to be settled within the scope of a comment thread.
Reply #17 Top
This will never happen because the corporations hold the capital to influence the voting on tax reforms, but if it were to happen how would giving the lowest earners in our society some more money make us all poorer? I just don't get it. That doesn't make sense. I understand you don't just want to give money away especially to people who dont' have the drive to earn it but already the richest segment pays more then half of what they earn to the rest of us and it trickles down to these poor income earners. It isn't really the problem of just those few, because lots of upper and middle income workers are losing their jobs to cheaper and less regulated labor standards overseas. This is causing a vacuum of income as well as lost tax revenue for the country because the income of lower wages can't be taxed as much or yield as much as a higher income. Explain to me though if you give more of that tax revenue to the poor how that makes us all poorer? Cause I did take economics and I don't get it.
Reply #18 Top

What should be of concern is the ability of Americans to secure a job that enables them to support their family. That is the issue.

Why is that the issue. Why is that my cocern? It is not my duty to make sure other people live within their means.

Reply #19 Top

Wow, Mortimer B. Zuckerman managed to write an editorial that wasn't about freaking Israel. He never has anything worth reading.

I was thinking the same thing when I read it! For those of you who don't read US News and World Report, nearly every editorial is about Israel (in its favor).  I consider myself pro-Israel but for a page or two each week in US News and WORLD Report to be about a one foreign country is odd.

Reply #20 Top

A recent survey shows that the average CEO makes 450 times the amount of the average worker. That means that in one day the CEO makes as much as the average makes in TWO YEARS of work. That is not reasonable and breads resentment! Bringing the wealth distribution into better balance is NOTHING like Communism.

First off, you're full of crap. The mean salary for a CEO is not over $13 million. Not even close.  the survey you are discussing is the average PUBLIC company CEO which is a very very big difference sinice public companies make up a tiny minority of CEOs.

Secondly, said public company CEOs have their salaries set by the stock holders. So shame on those stock holders (or maybe not) if they're paying CEOs more than they're worth.

Third, why should anyone care if salaries breed resentment.  Are you suggesting that "the masses" will resort to violence? My answer would be to that: Go ahead make my day. You take away the mega producers and "the masses" will be back doing sustanance farming.

Any GOVERNMENT action is action that is backed up by guns. And government action that involves confiscating my property to give to another by force out of some undefined sense of "fairness" is an awful lot like Communism.  What if I refused to hand my earnings in the name of fairness? What would happen? Men with guns woudl take me away and be sent to a Gulag (prison).

 

Reply #21 Top

Take the very unequal Latin American countries for an example. When there's no middle class, the poor stand to gain more from soaking the rich than they do from voting for pro-growth policies. And the _rich_ stand to gain more by keeping what they have than financing pro-growth policies like basic education and healthcare, which they won't use anyway. So the two groups fight over a shrinking pie.

Are you suggesting that most Latin Americans countries are approaching Laissez Faire?  Seems to me that most Latin American countries are far more socialist than what we have in the United States.

Latin American countries cannot be compared to the United States for a number of reason -- least of all because of the corrupt governments involved.

I would fully expect that if there were fewer regulations on the US economy that the gap would continue to grow wider and wider between the richest and the poorest.  The question though in my mind is whether the poorest would be worse off in absolute terms (as opposed to relative terms).

Despite the gaps we have today, the biggest health problem facing the poor of America is obsesity. I think that says something about how the "poor" in the US are doing in absolute terms.

Reply #22 Top

I'd really like to argue over the assumptions about fairness, equality, whether the economy is driven by the top 1%, whether the faster runner is ahead because he gets to choose the course, and so on, but picking away at the Homestead Act just feels much fresher and more likely to be settled within the scope of a comment thread.

I'd suggest making a blog about the Homestead act. I agree with you that the Zucker drew the absolute wrong conclusions from that act.

Reply #23 Top

This will never happen because the corporations hold the capital to influence the voting on tax reforms, but if it were to happen how would giving the lowest earners in our society some more money make us all poorer? I just don't get it. That doesn't make sense. I understand you don't just want to give money away especially to people who dont' have the drive to earn it but already the richest segment pays more then half of what they earn to the rest of us and it trickles down to these poor income earners.

It isn't really the problem of just those few, because lots of upper and middle income workers are losing their jobs to cheaper and less regulated labor standards overseas. This is causing a vacuum of income as well as lost tax revenue for the country because the income of lower wages can't be taxed as much or yield as much as a higher income. Explain to me though if you give more of that tax revenue to the poor how that makes us all poorer? Cause I did take economics and I don't get it.

We already suffer because of the taxes we have. We just don't know it because it's impossible to name all the things that didn't come into being because the people who would have created the unmade marvels didn't have enough capital to do so.

In every society, the mega producers will find a way to make sure they're fine. The government, however, can stifle how much the benefits created by the mega producers reach everyone else.

Let's use the example you provide:

"It isn't really the problem of just those few, because lots of upper and middle income workers are losing their jobs to cheaper and less regulated labor standards overseas. This is causing a vacuum of income as well as lost tax revenue for the country because the income of lower wages can't be taxed as much or yield as much as a higher income."

The question is: How did this happen?  The answer is that the government made it happen with its policies and the mega producers adapted.

Here's how: The federal government created free trade agreements and lowered tarrifs. I support this.  However, taxes and regulations and legal costs and insurance and so forth stayed in place.

Therefore, American companies suddenly have to compete with countries from overseas whose workers don't have that overhead (such as India, China, etc.).

American companies either:

a) Go out of business

b) Automate low-skilled jobs

c) Start hiring the same work force their competitors are using (i.e. out source)

When this starts to occur, what do the same people who favored this sort of thing in the first place propose? Raise minimum wage, Increase health costs on the producers to cover the uninsured (universal healthcare), increase unemployment benefits.

What people don't understand is that the ones who really control the economy are the people who create stuff. Governments don't create stuff. They're really only good at confiscating -- looting -- from the people who create stuff. 

The people who create stuff in the world (not just the "rich" but EVERYONE who is a producer) will always have control over their lives. How much they create determines how wealthy they are. But all net producers (rich or poor) will nearly always find a way to survive just fine.

So when you target the producers, they will find a way to adapt but those adaptations will likely have negative conseqences. Because THEY are not going to sacrifice themselves. 

The result is that if you start confiscating too much from the "rich" (mega producers) the result will be that those people will either:

a) Find some other way to survive which will likely have very negative results for those who depend on them directly (i.e. lay offs, out sourcing, plant closures, etc.)

or

b) They will opt-out entirely and stop producing more than what they and their families need. And we all suffer from not benefitting from the things they create (unless you yourself invented your own cell phone, TV, car, computer, etc. you probably are -- like me -- relying on the fact that other people out there invented great things with the expectation that they would benefit).

The key point: Governments don't make things. They don't create value. (these are broad generalizations, there are isolated exceptions).  PEOPLE make things. PEOPLE create value.

In other words, it is not in the government's power to make everyone equally better off.  It is only in the government's power to make everyone equally worse off.

Reply #24 Top
The objectivist philosophy of Ayn Rand being applied to economic policy has been proven a mistake in theory and in practice. Even when it is correctly interpreted. In fact, the rest of this post reads as if Draginol was basing his economic opinions on the Vonnegut short story "Harrison Bergeron" http://instruct.westvalley.edu/lafave/hb.html more than Rand's social Darwinist tome.

The assertion is made that the only possible result of trying to reduce the gap between the very rich and very poor will result in "everyone" being poorer. The self-contradictory nature of this statement has apparently gone unnoticed. How does improving the standard of living among the poorest segments of a society make "everyone" poor? If we just improved the well-being of someone, are they not richer?

If there is anything in science or politics that is not black and white, it is economics. Here Draginol gives us an either-or, black and white description of an issue most certainly not amenable to such simplistic descriptions. Luckily we don't have to base our opinions on novels, short stories, or blog entries.

We have actual real world evidence of how well these differing approaches to balancing social well-being and the free market work. Jeffery D. Sachs writes in the November 2006 issue of "Scientific American" http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?chanID=sa006&colID=31&articleID=000AF3D5-6DC9-152E-A9F183414B7F0000 on this very subject.

Comparing the economies of developed, industrialized, first-world countries, we can see the two approaches in action. In the primarily English speaking countries, such as Canada, the U.S., and the U.K. the economic policy since WWII has been in pretty close keeping with the one Draginol advocates--lower taxes, fewer and less funded social programs, and laissez-faire competition. Other democracies, the Nordic states of Denmark, Norway, Sweden, and Finland, for example, have adopted since WWII more progressive economic and social policies.

It's been 60 years, give or take, let's check in on these economies and societies and see how they are doing. Have the Nordic nations collapsed into some economic pit, where "everyone is poor", as Draginol states _must_ happen? Have the more timid policies of the English speaking nations made them stable economic powerhouses (with still plenty of poor people)? No. As Jeffery D. Sachs remarks,
[The Nordic countries] combine a healthy respect for market forces with a strong commitment to antipoverty programs. Budgetary outlays for social purposes average around 27 percent of gross domestic product (GDP) in the Nordic countries and just 17 percent of GDP in the English-speaking countries.

On average, the Nordic countries outperform the Anglo-Saxon ones on most measures of economic performance. Poverty rates are much lower there, and national income per working-age population is on average higher. Unemployment rates are roughly the same in both groups, just slightly higher in the Nordic countries. The budget situation is stronger in the Nordic group, with larger surpluses as a share of GDP.

The Nordic countries maintain their dynamism despite high taxation in several ways. Most important, they spend lavishly on research and development and higher education. All of them, but especially Sweden and Finland, have taken to the sweeping revolution in information and communications technology and leveraged it to gain global competitiveness.
...
The Nordic states have also worked to keep social expenditures compatible with an open, competitive, market-based economic system. Tax rates on capital are relatively low. Labor market policies pay low-skilled and otherwise difficult-to-employ individuals to work in the service sector, in key quality-of-life areas such as child care, health, and support for the elderly and disabled.


So, no matter how strongly held, or strongly worded the opinion, the facts are that responsible taxation, beneficial social programs, and successful business are not mutually exclusive.

Draginol tries to fend off actual real world evidence:
Latin American countries cannot be compared to the United States for a number of reason -- least of all because of the corrupt governments involved.

I tend to agree here. It is unfair to compare Latin American governments with a government that starts a war then gives multi-billion no-bid contracts to a corporation formerly run by the vice-president. Do these Latin American countries have medical assistance programs that pander to insurance middle-men? If not, this would be a poor comparison indeed. Do the governments of these Latin American countries INTERVENE on behalf of pharmaceutical corporations when consumers find an avenue for cheaper medications? I am not aware of any of them doing such a thing.

But, we don't have to compare to the U.S. if we don't want to. We can just find somewhere that operates under the kind of conditions Draginol advocates, and see how well things are there. I can't think of less regulated economies than those of many African countries. Some of them have no government at all, to speak of, to restrict and tax corporations, and certainly only the weakest of social programs to improve education and reduce poverty. These are countries where true laissez-faire capitalism is ongoing. I personally wouldn't particularly want to emulate them.
Reply #25 Top

How does improving the standard of living among the poorest segments of a society make "everyone" poor? If we just improved the well-being of someone, are they not richer?

Your logic is failing.  But this screamed out for response.

first, we have empirical evidence that it does not work.  USSR?  ANY communist regime?

Second, we have intuitive evidence.  If I produce a Million dollars, and you then take all but subsistance wages, why should I produce the rest?  for what?  Altruistic purposes?  I think not.  If I am not to enjoy the fruits of my labor, then I will not produce.  I can be a bum and be as well off as the bums!  So the producers stop producing and then there is nothing to give to the non-producers since all are non-producers.

Please, for your sake, take Econ 101.  You really need it.